Discussion:Disability Insurance Deduction for 100% S-Corp Shareholder?

From TaxAlmanac, A Free Online Resource for Tax Professionals
Note: You are using this website at your own risk, subject to our Disclaimer and Website Use and Contribution Terms.

From TaxAlmanac

Jump to: navigation, search

Discussion Forum Index --> Tax Questions --> Disability Insurance Deduction for 100% S-Corp Shareholder?


Eklein (talk|edits) said:

15 January 2007
This isn't legit, is it? Prior to converting from a C-Corp to an S-Corp in 2006, I was able to write off disability insurance premiums that the C-Corp had for me (sole shareholder, sole employee, and sole officer). I'm thinking the S-Corp can't. Is this correct?

Deback (talk|edits) said:

January 15, 2007
I'll direct you to Publication 535, page 23, #8 and page 25, #2.

Eklein (talk|edits) said:

15 January 2007
Thank you very much.

Death&Taxes (talk|edits) said:

15 January 2007
I have a C and disability is one benefit I prefer not to deduct because I don't feel like paying tax on the benefits.

Lhhesscpa (talk|edits) said:

15 January 2007
Right on, D&T. That's a bad bet. Any benefits will be many times greater than premiums. -- Larry Hess, CPA, Albuquerque, NM - Talk to me

Blrgcpa (talk|edits) said:

15 January 2007
It's insurance expense.

Will (talk|edits) said:

15 January 2007
An insurance expense that if you deduct are then obligated to pay tax on any proceeds form the policy. The ratios between premium and potential payout are so large, it is usuelly not expensed.

Riley2 (talk|edits) said:

16 January 2007
The fact that the employer deducts or does not deduct the premiums will have no bearing on the taxability of the benefits.

Dennis (talk|edits) said:

16 January 2007
Fascinating, albeit cryptic.

Deback (talk|edits) said:

January 16, 2007
Riley2 - I think the discussion relates to who should "pay" the premiums, the individual (from his personal funds) or the employer (from company funds). If the employer paid the premiums, the disability benefits to the individual would be taxable. If the individual paid the premiums, the disability benefits would not be taxable. So, of course, you are correct in your correction of the terminology.  :)

Death&Taxes (talk|edits) said:

16 January 2007
And if the premium is taxed to me as a dividends, or charged against monies the company owes me or if I reimbursed the company, then I am paying it even if the company writes the check and therefore any benefits would not be taxable. This is unlike an Officer's life policy I used to carry which was a company expense but not deductible and reflected in the analysis on M-1. If the disability policy were deducted to arrive at book income, but not deducted on the return, the benefits would be taxable. What I am trying to stress is that taxability does not depend on who writes the check, but on who pays the premium.

Dennis (talk|edits) said:

16 January 2007
Or perhaps how the policy is written?♫

Will (talk|edits) said:

16 January 2007
All right, I am confused. In order for an employer to deduct the premium they would of had to pay the premium. Can you explain more to a newbie Riley?

EDIT: And to carry forward D&T's example of the employer being reimbursed or the premium being taken against another liability to the employee, the DR would be to cash and the CR would go to Disablity Insurance Expense, nulifying the expense at the corporate level. I certainly see how that eleviates the taxation of any payout to the EE. But if the ER is paying and/or expensing the premium, how can the benefits escape tax assessment?


Will

Kevinh5 (talk|edits) said:

17 January 2007
You are forgetting to ask who is the beneficiary of the disability insurance.

My S Corp has one on me which will be used to pay my business overhead (deductible expenses) in the event I am disabled so I don't lose my employees and have something to come back to when I am better. The S Corp deducts the premiums, the benefits would be taxable, but offset by the expenses of hiring someone temporarily to replace me.

I also have another disability policy on myself which I don't deduct. For the reasons given above.

Death&Taxes (talk|edits) said:

17 January 2007
That is business overhead, a standard package that should be deductible.


Will: if the employer is paying the premium, it is income to the Employee whether employer chooses to deduct it or not. I can't imagine a reason for the latter except by one of us incorporated fools who thinks that by not deducting the premium at corporate level, it escapes taxation to the individual. Your entries are correct; in my case it is debit loan payable officer, credit cash when it is paid.

KENDRICK (talk|edits) said:

17 January 2007
C Corp pays for sole shareholder's individual disability policy. The C Corp does NOT take a deduction for the premium - it backs it out on the tax return.

Is this enough to avoid taxability of a claim? Or does anyone think the premium should either be repaid by the shareholder, or added to his W-2 as income (in which case the C Corp would get a deduction for the salary aspect, but it would be taxable income to the shareholder).

I have discovered recently that prior accountant never did anything more than merely back out the premium on the corporate tax return. So company paid for it, just did not take a deduction for it for tax purposes, but evidently did for financial purposes.

Thanks for any commentary in advance . . .

Death&Taxes (talk|edits) said:

17 January 2007
What Riley is saying, and he is correct, is that if the C is paying the premium, then the beneficiary is not and thus is taxable on it....whether or not the C deducts it. The beneficiary has no basis in the insurance is how I interpret it. Correct me if I am wrong, Riley.

Dennis (talk|edits) said:

17 January 2007
Or perhaps the question becomes why you are paying a personal expense with a corporate check?

KENDRICK (talk|edits) said:

17 January 2007
Thanks Dennis. This is exactly what I need to look at. Perhaps it is a situation like Kevinh5 referred to above. If not, I will get the client to start paying the premium out of his own funds.


I wonder . . . Say he pays the premium for a few years. Then makes a claim. Will the fact that the corporation paid the premium for several years before this make it taxable? Hmmmm. Hopefully the contract would be considered a year by year contract, if a mess like this got put under an IRS microscope . . .

Death&Taxes (talk|edits) said:

17 January 2007
I believe he will be okay; I recall in this last year that there can be a miraculous change of heart and the benefits not taxed. Perhaps someone can find this.


Yet I see no reason that if the corporation owes the officer money on a valid loan, the disability, or for that matter, any personal item, can't be paid as a reduction of that loan, which means the officer paid for the expense with his money. Or if the corporation has retained earnings, why could it not pay the premium as a dividend to the shareholder/officer?

Dennis (talk|edits) said:

17 January 2007
Are we having fun yet? If I had the foggiest idea what Riley meant I would have said so. Corporation is policy owner. There must be a valid business purpose otherwise you have a pierced corporate veil. Perhaps minutes designating policy only if officer pays? I don't think a journal entry does it.

Riley2 (talk|edits) said:

18 January 2007
Kendrick, the answer to your question depends on whether this is a group policy or an individual policy. If this is a group policy, the regulations use a 3-year look-back period to determine employer contributions. If this is an individual policy, the regulations force us to look at only the current policy year to determine the employer contribution.

Death&Taxes (talk|edits) said:

18 January 2007
As usual, Riley remembers what I can only hint at.

Eklein (talk|edits) said:

23 January 2007
As the original poster on this thread, I am looking for some advice beyond what is given above. As I mistakenly paid the individual disability insurance policy out of S-Corp funds in 2006, what is the best way for me to remediate this problem? I would *prefer* not to change my W-2 income as I have already filed a 941 for both Federal and State for 2006Q4 but would amend them if absolutely necessary (have not yet filed W-2 though).

I would also consider a personal repayment to the S-Corp for the premium amount or possibly include the amount as a distribution (if that is even appropriate).

Just looking for your best advice if you would please oblige. Lastly, I assume that the S-Corp should NOT be including this as a deductible expense anywhere on the 1120S (or attachments) regardless of how this corp reimbursement is performed, right?

Thanks in advance.

Kluskey (talk|edits) said:

17 May 2007
Based on Riley2's information that if the disability policy is an individual policy and the regulations force us to look at only the current policy year, do you think we can have the corporation/employer pay and deduct the disability policy premiums each year, but in a year during which the insured becomes disabled and starts collecting benefits, have the insured pay the premiums?

(This was a suggestion I saw, but the source was an insurance salesman).

Thanks.

To join in on this discussion, you must first log in.
Personal tools