Discussion:DPAD - construction activities
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28 February 2007 | |
1. Would a contractor installing new roofing qualify for the DPAD assuming he has positive QPAI and W2 wages paid to employees?
2. Also, what would constitute "substantial renovation" of real property to qualify for DPAD? Would oontractors remodeling homes (installing carpets, hardwood floors, windows, and applicances) qualify? Thanks! |
28 February 2007 | |
1) If new construction - YES, if not new construction, must meet additional "substantially renovate" rules (significantly alter use of property/adapt to new or different use, materially increase value of property, or substantially prolong the useful life of the property). The roofer would want to argue that he substantially prolongs the useful life of the property, although this is arguable, because isn't a house supposed to last over 100 years if it is kept in decent maintenance? My house was built in 1913, and it still functions.
2) NO, the individual contractors will not qualify UNLESS they are a component of a substantial renovation - for example, the tile contractor putting in a new kitchen floor will not qualify unless the homeowner is totally renovating her kitchen (maybe a $40,000 renovation - not a $2,000 renovation) that materially increases the value of her home. Appliances may be part of the renovation, but by themselves wouldn't qualify. |
28 February 2007 | |
You're welcome. I taught this subject to other tax professionals last year, so all I had to do was review my notes for you. |
March 1, 2007 | |
Well, I'm dealing with DPAD for the first time and might need to amend a couple returns for 2005 to include Form 8903. I think I ignored this last year because either I didn't think it affected some of my business returns that have employees (didn't understand what qualified), I didn't take the time to fully read the instructions, or I didn't have time to deal with it.
The businesses (with employees) I have that might qualify are: 1.) Computer Graphics Design - Designs graphics for paper products and pays other companies for the printing of the final products. 2.) Concrete construction - Pours concrete floors and walls 3.) Homebuilder - Builds new houses and hires sub-contractors for portions of the construction 4.) Embroidery Design - Sews the designs onto purchased items (shirts, etc).
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1 March 2007 | |
2 and 3 definately.
4 I think qualifies because it is QPP, but you might have to look at whether it is IWSP (Reg §1.199-3(g)) and "substantial in nature" as defined in §1.199-3(g)(2) based on the facts and circumstances OR, meets the safe harbor of §1.199(g)(3) (taxpayer's conversion costs account for at least 20% of the COGS of the property). 1 - I don't know how it meets the MPGE definition. I am doubtful of this one. |
March 1, 2007 | |
Thanks very much for your help! I know what COGS is, and I'll figure out what QPP (Qualified Production Property, I think), IWSP (I Will Sleep Prettysoon), and MPGE (Mt Pleasant Gets Expensive--if you don't win at Keno, that is) all mean. I think I'll quit for tonight and work on this tomorrow morning--that is, check out the Sections you listed, etc. |
March 1, 2007 | |
Regarding #1, their gross sales were about $386K and paid out $104K for printing, so I'm assuming they don't print the items they sell. But it sounds like I should ask them about this. They might print some of the items, which means they might qualify for a partial DPAD for the items they produce (if I'm understanding this right).
Got MPGE - Manufacturing, producing, growing, or extracting. |
1 March 2007 | |
Yes, MPGE in relation to the casino is expensive, but MPGE also stands for Manufactured, Produced, Grown or Extracted. IWSP - In Whole or Signifant Part within the US - so for example, if the embroidery business buys sweatshirts for $10, and its conversion costs (direct labor, supplies, and portion of overhead) aren't at least 2.50, then it doesn't meet the safe harbor rule for substantial in nature. 2.50 divided by 12.50 = 20%. QPP is Qualifyied Production Property. |
1 March 2007 | |
By the way, it was a 4 hour course, so don't expect to get it in only 1 hour. |
March 1, 2007 | |
Thank you for your help. I can see this will take more than an hour to understand enough to know what I'm doing. This was something I found out about in late Feb last year and had no time to research it then. I was going to do that during the summer and then amend any applicable returns, but I got sick at the end of June (through December) and never got around to it. I decided tonight (when working on the graphics corp return) that I needed to understand this. I'll read the Regulations tonight and anything else I can find on the web.
Thanks again! |
March 1, 2007 | |
Kevin - To follow up on this, I believe I understand this now and really appreciate your help.
I just emailed the graphics design client, asking if they print any of their products. I realized that designs are intangible property, so I guess it depends on if they print some of the products they sell. I've just amended the 2005 embroidery client's return for a refund of $51. It's only $2 extra refund for 2006, so I may not reprint her return to include the 8903. I'm currently waiting for the signed 8879 for that one. I haven't done the concrete and homebuilder's returns yet, but will amend their 2005 returns and include 8903 on their 2006 returns. I found a very good document on the web that I read this morning. It's here. Thanks again for your help! |
March 1, 2007 | |
The designs client just wrote back and said they only printed $1,304 worth of products they sold (out of $386K), so that takes care of that one. :) |
Eastendcpa (talk|edits) said: | 6 March 2007 |
Any insight as to what would be considered "materially increase the value of the property" for the "substantially renovate" rules. I have a small contractor client that does everything from home improvements, decks to additions. Is the only way to calculate the DPGR on a job by job basis and applying the "substantially renovate rules"? |
6 March 2007 | |
the additions would qualify, the decks would not unless there were significant other improvements also. Substantial could be different things in different areas of the country. A $5,000 renovation of a $50,000 home in Indiana would be significant, while a $5,000 improvement to a $950,000 house in California is probably just carpeting and wouldn't increase the value.
You will have to apply some common sense and not let the taxpayer get greedy. The taxpayer should set up his books to track the things that will count separate from the things that don't count, including COGS and wages for the jobs that do count. |
22 February 2008 | |
Have an engineer that I taking the Sect. 199 deduction for.
He has a s Corp. On the 8903 calculation to get to the QPAI, do I need to reduce it by section 179 expense shown on page 3 of the Schedule K on the 1120S. Thinking I would since it would lower the 6% calculation and produce a lower number. Does any one know this? |
24 February 2009 | |
I've read the Code and every discussion here and the instructions to 8903 and still don't know if this qualifies and/or how to find out for sure. Is it truly a matter of common sense? I don't know if I even saw anything about "substantial renovations"; is it in Section 199? Regardless, I asked the client what exactly they do and this is the reply: "The vast majority of our business is the sale and installation of pre-manufactured cabinetry and counters that we purchase from outside suppliers. Almost all of our product does go into new construction or is part of a substantial renovation, but again, we do not manufacture it". I've spent way too much time on this return, but will not 'scrimp' and lose something they may be entitled to. I would greatly appreciate any thoughts on this. Thank you. |
24 February 2009 | |
my vote is YES if they pay someone a W-2 wage and the installation of cabinetry to domestic real estate is part of a 'substantial' renoation.
Yes it is there. |
24 February 2009 | |
” Whether a taxpayer’s MPGE activity is “substantial in nature” AND circumstances, including the relative value added by, AND relative cost of, the taxpayer’s MPGE activity in the United States, the nature of the property, and the nature of the MPGE activity that the taxpayer performs in the United States.
substantial renovations: from Notice 2005-14 TexCPA 14:29, 24 February 2009 (CST) |
5 January 2010 | |
This is my first time to enter a discussion room, so please forgive my newness.
1. A sole proprietor owns a Monument Company. There are no employees. The Monument Company owner buys various parts and assembles already carved & lettered granite monument pieces (example: Dies, Bases, Vases, Benches, Planters, etc), and then Assembles and Installs the various parts into one finished product at various cemeteries. The monuments he assembles are erected onto a steel reinforced concrete foundation that the owner constructs on site prior to the monument assembly. 2. The same monument company owner sells and pours various steel reinforced foundation types and concrete curbing, sometimes using other types of granite pieces he assembles together with concrete under-lament. As mentioned earlier, the Monument Company Owner performs all the labor himself, and does not pay labor costs. Since he produces a finished product from parts and manufactures concrete foundations keeping record of COGS with substantial profit because he does the work himself, does he qualify for the DPAD? If possible, please give examples on how he should enter items into quickbooks or what he can do to qualify. Thanks! |
5 January 2010 | |
if he isn't organized as an S or C corp paying himself a W-2 salary, there is no need to go any further - he doesn't qualify. |
Whestsider (talk|edits) said: | 27 October 2012 |
Sorry for jumping in a couple of years too late. I have the same situation as Bweise. I have a Monument company that does everything mentioned by Bweise except my client also engraves the granite monuments and he does have payroll. I am leaning towards him being eligible for DPAD but I am a little skeptical. Any thoughts? Thanks! |
Tax Writer (talk|edits) said: | 28 October 2012 |
There are so many businesses that qualify for the DAPD, it is greatly underutilized as a deduction. Kevin posted an example a few months back of a diamondcutter qualifying-- they cut the raw materials to create a "new product" and therefore it is a qualifying DAPD activity.
I would say that if the client has a payroll, creates a product in the US and carries an inventory, unless the activity is specifically excepted (such as restaurants, pornography, etc) then there is a very good chance the client is eligible for the DAPD. |