Discussion:College credits while still in high school

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Discussion Forum Index --> Tax Questions --> College credits while still in high school


DR BRISKET (talk|edits) said:

10 February 2006
A very common situation anymore is for high school students to take college courses while they are still in high school. I am presently working on a return for a client whose daughter took several credits at a local university. The university issued her a 1099-T showing $1,447 in qualified expenses. The 1099-T also shows this student was enrolled at least half-time. My question is this: would this student qualify for the Hope credit even if she is still in high school? The tax advantage to her is about $800 between claiming the Hope Credit vs. the Lifetime Learning Credit.

Riley2 (talk|edits) said:

10 February 2006
Yes, she qualifies since the university is an accredited institution.

DR BRISKET (talk|edits) said:

10 February 2006
Thanks, Riley2. That's how I interpreted the regulations. Of course, the opposite side of the coin here is the Hope Credit can only be taken for two years by the same student. This particular student will probably be paying much higher tuition fees in 2006 and 2007. So, it might be in her best interest to defer claiming any Hope credits for one more year. I will be discussing this with her parents before I finalize their tax return.

Riley2 (talk|edits) said:

10 February 2006
Yes, this may be a good strategy. However, I believe that the Hope Credit is only available for those individuals who have not reached their junior year of college.

DR BRISKET (talk|edits) said:

10 February 2006
Riley2--that is correct. Now, another stipulation is that the student must be enrolled in a program leading to a degree. If a student (such as my client's daughter) is simply taking some basic college courses, but has not declared a major, wouldn't this also disqualify a student from claiming the Hope Credit?

Warren (talk|edits) said:

10 February 2006
Isn't the Hope Credit 100% of the first $1500. Is so, and she has $1447 in qualified expenses why not claim it now?

Riley2 (talk|edits) said:

10 February 2006
Not exactly. It is 100% of the $1,000 plus 50% of 447.

WESR (talk|edits) said:

10 February 2006
hi dont forget the parents cannot claim exemption if the child takes credit so need to factor that cost in. still have option to claim credit on parents return. you dont seem to say whether you have looked at both cases for which is the best. bye

Blubby (talk|edits) said:

February 10, 2006
Dr Brisket - Declaring the major is not the issue. It is whether she is enrolled by the university with a "degree seeking" status. I'd guess that she isn't. I'd be shocked if any university enrolled a student who hasn't yet earned a HS diploma as a degree seeking student.

Blubby (talk|edits) said:

February 10, 2006
Take a look at this IRS web page:

http://www.irs.gov/publications/p970/ch02.html#d0e2684 Under "Who is an Eligible Student" it gives this example (#3):
"During the 2004 Fall semester, Luis was a high school student who took classes on a half-time basis at College X. Luis was not enrolled as part of a degree program at College X because College X only admits students to a degree program if they have a high school diploma or equivalent. Because Luis was not enrolled in a degree program at College X during 2004, Luis was not an eligible student for tax year 2004." So, unless your client's daughter was registered as a "degree seeking" student, it would appear that she doesn't qualify.

WESR (talk|edits) said:

10 February 2006
just checked out definition of "eligible student" blubby great job the rest of us were lead down a beaten path by a trivia question most of us have never had to address. learn something new everday. bye

Bossmom (talk|edits) said:

11 February 2006
Another way to look at this is the student is in a high school degree program at a institute of higher learning, the degree progran would be PSEO, post secondary education opportunity. which gIVES credits from higher education applied to high school standards and later their college degree.

DR BRISKET (talk|edits) said:

11 February 2006
Blubby and others. Thanks for your responses. Now, I'm assuming the above discussions are addressing the HOPE credit. But what about the LIFETIME LEARNING Credit? IRS Publication says an eligible student for the LEC is a student who is enrolled in one or more courses at a qualified institution. However, JK Lasser says "The credit may be claimed for one or more courses at an eligible educational instuitution that are either part of a post-secondary degree program or part of a nondegree program taken to acquire or improve job skills." I am convinced my client cannot claim a Hope Credit. But, I'm thinking she can claim the LEC. Now, for the record, it will actually be the parents claiming the credit. The daughter already filed her taxes, but did not claim herself. So, if any credit is available, it will be taken on the parents return as they are claiming their daughter as a dependent.

Riley2 (talk|edits) said:

11 February 2006
Blubby, you are citing example #5 from Reg. § 1.25A-3. However, see example #6 from the regulations which suggests that the student could change his status by simply matriculating under that institution’s rules. For example, in California, almost anyone can matriculate into a public community college and become a candidate for a certificate or AA degree. However, I do recognize that the UC system does allow high school students to attend classes without being matriculated.

Blubby (talk|edits) said:

February 11, 2006
I don't believe that "matriculation" is the issue, either. The question is a practical one: will a college or university grant degree-seeking status to a student who lacks a high-school diploma? If not, simply changing status is not an option. Also, I find it difficult to believe that "anyone" would be permitted to matriculate as a candidate for an AA degree BEFORE obtaining their HS diploma.

Blubby (talk|edits) said:

February 11, 2006
Dr Brisket - For starters on the Lifetime Learning Credit, here are three IRS web pages from Pub. 970:

http://www.irs.gov/publications/p970/25221v07.html http://www.irs.gov/publications/p970/ch03.html#d0e3452 http://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc605.html

Riley2 (talk|edits) said:

11 February 2006
Blubby, the community college in my city regularly awards AA degrees to students before they receive their high school diploma’s. Yes, I agree that it is unusual to see 17-year olds attending their high school and junior college graduations in the same year, but it is allowed. Consequently, I see no conflict between being a high school student and being a matriculated certificate or degree candidate. I personally attended college full-time for one year as a matriculated candidate for a degree in engineering while also attending high school.

Section 25A(b)(3) provides very specific guidelines for determining an “eligible student”. Specifically, the statute provides that the student must satisfy the requirements of Section 484(a)(1) of the Higher Education Act of 1965. Section 484(a)(1) of the 1965 Act was codified into 20 USC, § 1091(a)(1).

Basically, the statute was designed to determine eligibility for Federal student aid, but was adopted by reference into the Hope statute [26 USC, § 25A(b)(3)].

The end result of all this is that any student who is enrolled or accepted into any program that ultimately leads to a “recognized educational credential” (including study abroad) satisfies the 1965 Act. Thus, most students who are matriculated will ultimately be eligible to receive some sort of certificate or degree if they stay long enough, and should be eligible for the Hope Credit.

Blubby (talk|edits) said:

February 11, 2006
Okay, I give up...just do me the favor of reconciling the IRS example referenced earlier with what you're saying. All I've been doing is responding to Dr. Brisket's specific question, not some theoretical construct or what-if. The practical point, as I clearly said earlier, is whether the student was enrolled with degree-seeking status. If California universities bestow degrees before diplomas, then okay (as bizarre as that sounds). But if Dr. Brisket's client's daughter was taking courses as a non-degree seeking student, then by definition she is not enrolled in a program that ultimately leads to a post-secondary credential. So, I stand by my opinion that simply taking any college-level courses is insufficient to qualify for the credit.

DZCPA (talk|edits) said:

11 February 2006
Almost all classes can be used in obtaining a degree. I know a few "students" who are still "degree seeking" after 10 years. If I see a 1099-T I go with it.

WESR (talk|edits) said:

11 February 2006
hi blubbly you have my condolences. you answered the question correct. i get alot of laughs on some of these questions. bye

Riley2 (talk|edits) said:

11 February 2006
There is no conflict between what Dr. Briskett is attempting to do and what the regulations are saying.

In simple terms, the regulations state that if you are not admitted or enrolled as a regular student, then you may not claim the Hope Credit. This means that I cannot claim the Hope Credit for the tuition that I paid for my 16-year old daughter (now a senior in high school) who took lower division calculus courses at the University of California last summer since she is not an admitted student. However, I have every right to claim the Hope Credit for the tuition paid for her regular attendance at the local junior college this spring since she is taking 8 units and is a regular student eligible for an AA degree after 60-semester units.

Riley2 (talk|edits) said:

11 February 2006
Blubby, I apologize if my post sounded too abstract. I think I have spent too many hours arguing in Tax Court.

TaxResearcher (talk|edits) said:

11 February 2006
Riley2, I believe that it would be much simpler to just quote the Congressional Committee reports and say that anyone who is eligible for Federal Student Aid under the 1965 FAFSA rules is an eligible student for Hope purposes. This would appear to include high school students who have applied under the regular admission procedures for the institution involved.

Blubby (talk|edits) said:

February 12, 2006
Riley2 - I agree fully with your last sentence (second post, above) that your daughter is eligible if she is enrolled as a degree-seeking student at a qualifying post-secondary institution. That is ALL I have been saying this whole time! And, that alone is Dr. Brisket's issue that he needs to address. But contrary to what others have said, not All students are granted degree-seeking status, and NOT just anyone taking just ANY college-level course qualifies. And, to those who have referenced FAFSA rules, please read the following direct quote from the FAFSA web site outlining eligibility requirements. PLEASE take special note of requirement #2:

Student Eligibility The Department of Education uses the information provided on your FAFSA to determine your eligibility for aid from the Federal Student Aid (FSA) programs. Some of the requirements to receive aid from FSA programs are that you must: 1) Be a citizen or eligible noncitizen of the United States with a valid Social Security Number; 2) Have a high school diploma or a General Education Development (GED) certificate or pass an approved "ability to benefit" test; Enroll in an eligible program as a regular student seeking a degree or certificate; 3) Register (or have registered) for Selective Service, if you are a male between the ages of 18-25; and 4) Have a result of Eligible or Partially Eligible on the Drug Conviction question (Question 31).

Thanks to all. I hope this finally puts this issue to rest.

Riley2 (talk|edits) said:

13 February 2006
Yes, Blubby, you are absolutely right about this.

In addition, I need to correct my previous statements about concurrent enrollment. Under Sec. 484(a)(1) of the Higher Educational Act of 1965, a college student who is also enrolled in an elementary school or high school is automatically ineligible for Federal student aid, thus also making him ineligible for the Hope Credit.

Therefore, I would be wrong in claiming the Hope Credit for my 16-year old daughter’s attendance at the local community college – even though she is a degree candidate, since she still attends high school on a regular basis.

Daphne75644 (talk|edits) said:

13 February 2006
I would like to know about scholarships that are listed on the 1098T. If the scholarships doesn't specifically say "must be used to pay tuition" then would you add the scholarship into income and then use all of the tuition for the credit?

Riley2 (talk|edits) said:

13 February 2006
If the qualified Sec. 117 expenses (tuition, books, fees) are less than the scholarships received, then the difference is added to income. If the qualified Sec. 25A expenses (tuitom and fees) are more than the scholarship amount, the difference is used for the Tuition credits.


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