Discussion:Asset Class; Bonus Deprec. ; Res Rental AC
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Discussion Forum Index --> Advanced Tax Questions --> Asset Class; Bonus Deprec. ; Res Rental AC
Discussion Forum Index --> Tax Questions --> Asset Class; Bonus Deprec. ; Res Rental AC
19 March 2011 | |
I have searched and read but still am not confident of my conclusion: Facts - Res. Rental, new central air replacing old 6/2010; Looks like this would be E-1 7/12 Office furniture etc. eligible for 50% bonus depreciation. $1,900 cost; $950 plus $136 using mid-year convention. [Depreciation has always been confusing to me.] |
19 March 2011 | |
It is a structural component - thus for a residential rental 27.5 years. See ยง1.48-1(e)(2). |
Harry Boscoe (talk|edits) said: | 19 March 2011 |
Where I come from this would be 27.5-year residential rental real estate (it's a building function, isn't it, central heating and/or cooling?) or it would be repair expense, to restore the dwelling to its proper functioning. I think the sticking point is going to be using component depreciation for "building function" elements: central heating, central cooling, etc. |
19 March 2011 | |
If this is replacing the compressor or some such, then I would try to find a way to use a shorter life. To me, this would be different from, say... the duct work that is more a part of the structure itself. Many times, the compressor is outside the building and/or removable. I know of people that have purchased used units, so to me they are not structural and I know from personal experience that their life is NOT 27.5 years! |
20 March 2011 | |
Solomon - that was my first choice since it was a replacement of the entire a/c but (a) these units do not last more than about 15 years, and (2) the old woman of modest income who owns the rental is not going to last 15 years either. As a practical matter it isn't going to make that much difference - she is in the 10% bracket but any additional income adds a little more to taxable social security as well. This is a situation where I would like to use some common sense and in case of audit ask forgiveness but I am also sensitive to the "ethical" concerns. |
20 March 2011 | |
...in case of audit ask forgiveness...
I would never sign a return if I didn't think I had a reasonable expectation of my position being substantiated during an audit. The law specifically states that HVAC systems are "structural components" and are depreciated over the same lifespan as the building. |
Harry Boscoe (talk|edits) said: | 20 March 2011 |
But wait. If you can let yourself describe this central air conditioning system as office furniture and fixtures it will end up in the 7-year MACRS category, won't it?
But wait some more. If it's described as office machinery, instead, it'll be 5-year property, won't it? Or you can just go all the way, call it a *horse* and - if it's the right age - it'll get written off over only three years! |
RoyDaleOne (talk|edits) said: | 20 March 2011 |
It is a repair. |
20 March 2011 | |
Harry - I originally picked what I think is the Proseries 7/12 category. Unless I am not looking in the right places, I have never seen a list that provides good comprehensive direction as to asset lives for specific items encountered by ordinary people. For example, I never saw a list that stated "central air conditioning unit replacement 27.5 years."
At least (I think) this lady can take the 50% bonus depreciation on a new refrigerator she bought for her rental. That is listed as "F Rental Furnishing 5/9 year". That refrigerator will probably last as long as the central air unit - as they say, "go figure". As for calling it a "repair", even I have trouble calling replacement of the whole unit as a "repair". If the compressor alone were replaced that might be possible. The irony is that replacing the compressor would cost almost as much as replacing the whole unit. |
Harry Boscoe (talk|edits) said: | 20 March 2011 |
Did you check out Solomon's cite to the Section 48 Regs? |
RoyDaleOne (talk|edits) said: | 20 March 2011 |
Pub 945:
"Structural components: Parts that together form an entire structure, such as a building. The term includes those parts of a building such as walls, partitions, floors, and ceilings, as well as any permanent coverings such as paneling or tiling, windows and doors, and all components of a central air conditioning or heating system including motors, compressors, pipes and ducts. It also includes plumbing fixtures such as sinks, bathtubs, electrical wiring and lighting fixtures, and other parts that form the structure." |
RoyDaleOne (talk|edits) said: | 20 March 2011 |
Regs. Sec. 1.162-4. Repairs.
The cost of incidental repairs which neither materially add to the value of the property nor appreciably prolong its life, but keep it in an ordinarily efficient operating condition, may be deducted as an expense, provided the cost of acquisition or production or the gain or loss basis of the taxpayer's plant, equipment, or other property, as the case may be, is not increased by the amount of such expenditures. Repairs in the nature of replacements, to the extent that they arrest deterioration and appreciably prolong the life of the property, shall either be capitalized and depreciated in accordance with section 167 or charged against the depreciation reserve if such an account is kept.
thus, the repair of a central air conditioning component fails to raise to a sufficient level that its repair by itself does not prolong the useful life of the building. The repair returns the building to the condition of normal operations. The replacement of the air conditioning unit maintains the value of the building, it does not increase the value of the building, but prevents the value from deteriorating because of the lack of repair. Now having said my piece about repair I leave you. |
20 March 2011 | |
About everyone commenting here on this question/issue is smarter than me - my trouble is that I try to make sense of the tax law/regs and of course that is a futile exercise. Sort of reminds me of my former job with a milk processing company. One of my favorite sayings was "there are only two people in the entire U.S. that understand the federal milk marketing order regulations - and they disagree." If the refrigerator stops working and have the compressor replaced that is a repair. If I replace the entire refrigerator, that has to be depreciated. I realize that is an apples (real property) and oranges (tangible personal property) situation. When you are selling a property it seems that the buyers are always concerned about (1) the condition of the roof, (2) the condition of the HVAC system, and (3) the water heater. [Why the water heater, a $650 item, I never understood]. So to a degree a newer roof, a newer furnace or a/c, and a newer water heater do add value. At this point I see there are options, but not the one I originally considered. I can expense it, or depreciate it over 27.5 years, but my logical idea of depreciating it over 7 years has no merit. At this point I see a "leg to stand on" in expensing it, but I doubt that would prevail on audit - it might in Tax Court, but I checked and the tax difference is only $390. She is in the 15% bracket but not expensing it causes more of her soc sec to become taxable. I do respect everyone's thoughtful opinion and actually find the discussion both valuable and entertaining. Knowing that some of the wise men here think it has to be depreciated over 27.5 years eases my biggest fear of doing something dumb that causes the client to overpay. |
Harry Boscoe (talk|edits) said: | 20 March 2011 |
"...valuable and entertaining." It doesn't get any better than that.
Rafa lost in three sets. |
9 April 2012 | |
RoyDaleOne cites Publication 945. I no can find this publication. What do you think he meant? |
Spell Czech (talk|edits) said: | 9 April 2012 |
I suspect he meant Publication 946 which you can get to by clicking here. |
Coddington (talk|edits) said: | 9 April 2012 |
Roy,
The new temporary regulations, (which have the full force and effect of final regulations), say that you have to consider HVAC as the property unit, even though you generally consider the building as the property unit when talking about structural building components. So the OP will probably end up with a capitalized new central A/C depreciated over 27.5 years. |
Coddington (talk|edits) said: | 9 April 2012 |
...originally picked what I think is the Proseries 7/12 category. Unless I am not looking in the right places, I have never seen a list that provides good comprehensive direction as to asset lives for specific items encountered by ordinary people. For example, I never saw a list that stated "central air conditioning unit replacement 27.5 years."
You will never find a list of asset lives for specific items.You start with the enumerated categories in section 168, like racehorses or qualified leasehold improvements. If you don't find your asset type there, you then look at Rev Proc 87-56 to see which asset class applies. However, you also must simultaneously look under the old ITC regulations, where you will find a list of assets that are structural components of buildings if they relate to the operation or maintenance of the building. And an item might be a listed structural component but still qualify as tangible personal property if it is an accessory to the business, if it is special or decorative, if it is not inherently permanent, if it is HVAC whose sole justification is to maintain temperature or humidity levels for other machinery to operate, or if it is a special electrical, gas, or plumbing line that is primarily used with and necessary for the use of a particular piece of equipment. But the tests don't stand alone: decorative marble wall tile that is inherently permanent will be structural. |
10 April 2012 | |
I was particularly interested in Roy's cite regarding windows as being part of the structure and therefore should be depreciated over 27.5 years. I am trying to find any such citation for windows. Does anybody have any suggestions? |
RoyDaleOne (talk|edits) said: | 10 April 2012 |
What the IRS promulgates.
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RoyDaleOne (talk|edits) said: | 10 April 2012 |
A list of sorts.
http://www.irs.gov/Businesses/Cost-Segregation-ATG---Chapter-6.4-Relevant-Court-Cases |