Discussion:Advanced Degrees

ok... go!

How did you? Went to law school. Wouldn't recommend it these days unless you can get into a top school or if you go in-state (or get a large scholarship) and tuition runs <15k or so a year. It may make sense for people with specialized backgrounds, such as CPAs, science guys who can sit for the patent bar, or if you have existing connections in the field.

Do you want one? Maybe a Tax LLM. Thought about a M.Accy or an MBA, but with my undergraduate background it seems superflous as I already know enough accounting to get by for tax purposes. Thought about getting a masters in engineering, such as EE, ME, or AE for my own edification.

What do you think of your program? By most accounts, law school is both stressful and enjoyable, mine was no different.

I am taking the final course for my LL.M. from Taft Law School. My degree from Taft would not be taken seriously by any major law firm but due to my age and J.D. school, that was never an option for me anyway. I've learned a great deal in the program (without having to incur student loans). I intend to offer tax law representation and consulting once I retire from my current State civil service job. My unscientific polling of local commercial law firms suggests that there's a small but definite market here for those services. We shall see.

Of course, I'm a known quantity around here so that should help.

Taft Law's affiliate, Taft University, offers a 30 semester hour Master of Science in Taxation which shares much of its coursework with my LL.M. program. I recommend Taft highly for people like myself who entertain no Wall Street illusions but potential students should understand that Taft schools have their accreditation from the Distance Education and Training Council and not from the American Bar Association or any regional accreditor or national business school accreditor. This may limit the utility of the degree for academic employment. I don't know what attitude accounting firms might have.

Taft is cheap enough to be almost affordable and since it is accredited, the student can claim the various education credits and deductions as applicable. Californians or wanna-be Californians who wish to earn a CA Bar qualifying J.D. at a greatly reduced expense can also do so online at Taft but that is a very, very long slog.

Thanks to everyone for their insight!

Since entering the tax field, I did begin (but never completed) a distance learning Master of Taxation program. The courses qualified for CPE, but they were relatively expensive compared with live CPE. They did delve much deeper into the code than most other CPE, though. I didn't finish because of some life-changes at the time which needed my focus and energies. Now the school tells me that I'd have to start over because it's been so long. Since I work for myself, I didn't need the additional master's degree to impress anyone, it would purely be for the benefit of the knowledge to be gained. Honestly, I have already taken all of the masters level tax classes on the topics that interest me, so paying money (again) to take classes that really don't interest me sounds like a big waste of time and money.

But then I get 75 to 100 hours of CPE a year already.....my philosophy is that if you take only the required number of tax CPE hours (NAEA requires 30 a year), you will be only an average EA (or average tax pro) If you want to be above average, you've got to learn much more than the average. To become an expert at anything, you've got to invest a lot more time than the average person is willing to invest.

In addition to the tax CPE, I do CPE to maintain my insurance and securities licenses.

Now you're talking some turkey there. There could be a future in that field. However, I'm a big proponent of sending these kids to foreign medical schools now. There's no reason to pay the top US tuition rate when the rest of the doctors don't.

You can hardly find a doctor trained in the US anymore. I asked my doctor (name about 15 letters long but a very good guy nevertheless) about why this was and he says it's cheaper to go to school overseas. The parents here shouldn't strain themselves.

We're letting these highly trained people in on special visas, and in addition these fruadulent H1B visas are the worst thing that ever happened to the middle class! Who is supporting this H1B? Rumor is it's Big Business that supports it. It's totally fraudulent.

If you can't beat them join them. I was watching TV the other night and I heard you could buy a camel** for 2.5 K (which is probably high). So you're saving money by not having to buy your child a car as well.

.** In some of these countries they ride mini-bikes that run on butane lighters which are even cheaper than camels.

A distance learning degree can be significantly less expensive than a resident program. It's guaranteed to be more convenient. But it does require a lot of self-discipline and motivation.

I understand that the fully-accredited University of Alabama offers an online LL.M.(tax) but it would have cost me at least four times as much as the Taft degree without being significantly more useful to me.

I was thinking of India Szp. You'd be surprised at the number of Americans in India. I went there on a medical tourism trip to have my toes straightened so I could water ski barefooted, but the surgeon told me he'd give me a new heart as well for an extra $200. I was anxious to get on with the tour and I didn't have time to recoup from heart surgery so I turned him down, but I'd go back.

They actually have some good medical schools in India (I'm serious) and they speak English, and of course you can have your taxes done while you're there so you can go in April when it's cooler.

It's a pity that we often make the news when a tornado rips through a trailer park, and some of the worst characteristics of our regional tongue are put on display for all the nation to hear during the victim interviews. I've encouraged the local zoning boards to require that a strip of vacant land go through the middle of all trailer parks to give the tornado a place to pass through, and to spare our region the embarassment that often attends to these unfortunate incidents and the TV coverage which inevitably ensues.

http://in.reuters.com/article/idINIndia-52480220101027

The President is not fooling anyone. I'm glad you showed me this. But I want to warn everyone, these Elephants are worse.

The Elephants would have been drinking champagne in Bangalore, whooping it up with the local business elite.

The Elephants will complain and moan to the cows come in about the illegal, but they'd sell out every American job to legal immigration and legal outsourcing. Well, the Jackasses don't have much to brag about either.

The irony of all this is that it's the LEGAL immigration, and the LEGAL outsourcing that's killing us. Shame on both Parties.

P.S. Just in case my Indian doctor is reading this (I got two, one here and one over there), I want him to know that I don't have anything against him personally as he is a very good doctor, and I'd hate to go under the knife with someone mad at me.

I tried to find a doctor who grew up here, but if my insurance company can't find any, how can I?

I had been hoping to take an in-person program (more motivation, and opportunity to network), but the program that used to be in my area (U of Portland) stopped the Masters of Tax several years ago, apparently due to lack of interest. I looked at their MBA program, which included options for concentrations in finance or accounting, but it was really very little material overall on accounting or tax. Also looked at a law degree with tax concentration, but again, didn't think the few tax classes would contribute enough to make the whole program worthwhile.

I actually had a hard time convincing the CPA firm I work for to help financially with it - really in our industry the CPA designation is what clients recognize, and there are certainly cheaper ways to get good quality CPE. But my personality lends itself to a more technical-based, research-oriented career niche (as opposed to big picture planning or marketing), so I think in the end the more detailed, academic approach from the masters program will be quite useful.

I have wondered from time to time whether a tax practitioner really needs a J.D. The MST is almost a law degree in disguise for tax. With a good bar prep course, the MST grad should be able to pass the Tax Court exam in one or two attempts and that, plus being a CPA or Enrolled Agent gives you most of what a lawyer can do in a law firm and EVERYTHING a lawyer can do working for an accounting firm.

I also wonder about the usefulness of a tax degree (or qualifying to represent at the tax court - hadn't heard of that before and just did a quick search after reading your comment). I think as the firm I'm at gets larger it might be useful to them to have practitioners with more legal abilities like that. We certainly represent clients with audits, and I'm currently helping with a client in appeals, but I'm unaware if we've ever assisted with a client going to court.

http://west.thomson.com/productdetail/143603/40659005/productdetail.aspx This fellow was ahead of his time. Taught and may still teach at University of Ga. law school.

Then the states will go to war over fresh water, and there will be a tax by the drink to fund the litigation over water. What I mean by tax by the drink is a drink of water, 15 cents a glass tax for your water, ice an extra nickle, 20 cents tax on a drink of water plus your water bill.

All the big oil companies are buying up water now, even though oil doesn't mix with water (unless you add other chemicals to it which the oil companies make). Then the oil companies will have to jump into the litigation also. Here's a backgrounder:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/10/101019121922.htm

There will probably even be a tax on zoo animals before it's over. Some consider them a luxury. And they'll apply the airline tax to domestic birds and tax birdseed as a fuel. Should be plenty enough to keep people busy if they can stand it.

If you get a job paying lots of money, try to buy a vacation home on a deep fjord in Norway, or someplace wheres you can catch the snow melt and store it. Maybe Siberia. Wouldn't hurt to buy a camel either as I suggested above, there will be a lot of money made in camels. It takes about a year to lean how to ride one, and learn to breed them.

George Marsh was a genius and an expert on the camel and his book on the camel is as relevant today as it ever was. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Perkins_Marsh

"The Camel, his Organization, Habits, and Uses, with Reference to his Introduction into the United States (1856)" by GP Marsh, highly recommended.

I've already told my wife I'll have to take on a Russian bride to get my foot in the door over there, and I was quite surprised by her reaction. It was one of great relief.

Total MST tuition at the well-regarded Golden Gate University is about $26,000. Total Taft tuition for the same degree is about $12,000. So thanks to your employer's self-interested generosity in paying half, you are getting a really good degree for about the cost of an okay/maybe degree (referring to market value).

Sweet!

I have a MS in Systems Management mostly paid for by the Air Force many many years ago. When I decided to become a CPA I didn't want (to pay for) another degree so just took accounting classes at the community college.

Once in a blue moon I feel like getting a JD, not so much to work as an attorney but just to know the law a lot better. Sometimes I have the ambition of listening to a supreme court oral argument and not get lost after the first 5 minutes :-)

As far as what I think about a MAcc program: A Master in Accountancy is good to get 150 credit hours for the CPA exam if that's what your planning on doing. It seems to help people get a job (or a better job) and help you to discover some interesting things in accounting (as well as more practice researching them). My take is that the majority of what you learn is on the job, so find a place that will help you learn and does a thorough review of everything you prepare.

You don't need an advanced degree to do tax. Really, you don't need ANY degree to do tax but beyond a certain level of business sophistication, I don't think that there'd be much chance of getting into the profession without a degree in accounting, tax, or law. So why go to the considerable effort and expense for a masters that you don't really need?

I think that there are two reasons: 1) Because possessing a masters in tax, whether law or accounting, demonstrates a commitment to the field that an amployer might find impressive; and 2) Because in the process of earning a masters, the student undertakes a systematic overview of the Code and Regs rather than learning piecemeal as issues come up in practice.

I cannot honestly say whether a masters degree in tax is a worthwhile investment. There's a LOT of debate in legal circles about the value of any LL.M. degree except tax and there's almost an equal amount of debate regarding whether a tax LL.M. is a worthwhile employment credential, in other words, whether it's better to get the law job first and have your firm pay for it. The consensus seems to be that having the LL.M. won't carry much weight either way in getting that first tax law job.

I have no idea about employment in accounting other than, again, large firms seem to be more interested in whether the applicant has passed the CPA exam than whether he has an MST or LL.M.