Discussion:ACORN advice

http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog/2009/09/acorn-gives-tax-.html

Personally, they should win. After watching the video, I just could not believe what I heard.

Tom

It's deplorable. I agree that if the DNC or any candidate associates with these people, they deserve what they get.

How did 8k a month keep making it down to 800.00? Where did the $7,000.00 in expenses come from, thin air? Is this a criminal conspiracy to evade taxes? This has it all, underage minors, potential kidnap victims...

What would they do with a contract killer?

ACORN essentially preys on the poor (and the outcast types, let's add criminals), and ACORN collects money from non-profit agencies and other non-profit front agencies to deliver votes (at least that's how I see it). At the root of it is money.

Yet, there is another industry at the very top, with fine office furnishings and china coffee cups that is also steering taxpayers into foreign bank accounts to evade tax, and sophisticated highly suspect tax dodges.

Whereas the people in the middle and upper middle class are the slobs trying to obey the law and pay their tax.

.*Though at $8,000.00 supposed dollars per month, it would be hard to call the "performing artist" poor. Oh, but it was just $800.00.....

P.S. The news media is being careful and saying that ACORN is alleged to have done this, so I amend all my above remarks to state that ACORN is alleged to have done all this.

Discussion: Maybe she taught Geithner?

I would not rely on CNN or the other major media then, either. Just look at what CNN aired today:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_sFaDJ2pz8

It turns out CNN was dead wrong. It was an exercise by the Coast Guard. Not the brightest move by the Coast Guard on the anniversary of 9/11, I must admit.

Fox wasn't wrong. Those idiots at ACORN were and deserved to be fired.

Tom

As far as objective news, day in and day out, you won't find it on FOX or CNN. They are pretty much entertainment in my opinion.

Agreed. No news channel is objective anymore. I am tired of all of them frankly.

I read and listen to all different perspectives, when time permits. Honestly, each one has a corner on stupidity covered very nicely, I guess I am jaded from living and working in the DC area for years. I have too many personal stories and from contacts inside the Beltway to share with the board that would make you wonder what the heck really goes on in this town.

Census Bureau announced today they are cutting ties with ACORN. That's no surprise.

Forget these bozos. Remember the heroes of today's anniversary.

Tom

wow

When the DC video showed up, it reminded me of something. Twenty-plus years ago at my first CPA firm, I used to do audits in a DC neighborhood known to have, shall we say, "ladies of the evening." These women in no-way, shape or form, looked anything like this young lady. I doubt they do still.

Advice to ACORN employees: STREET PROSTITUTES NEVER LOOK AS GOOD AS THAT GIRL AND PIMPS DON'T DRESS IN THAT CLOWNISH ATTIRE!

No, I don't know from personal experience. It's just an observation.

Now back to our regular scheduled programming.

Tom

PS: Kevin, check your math.

I didn't see that until now. Sorry about that. I was laughing too hard at the time. I lost it at the search through the business classifications. Thetax expert" comes up with "performance arts" and tells her "which is what you are, performing arts." That's when the money comes into the discussion.

The outright fraud discussed openly on the tapes is just too rich. Of course, now ACORN is claiming they were the victims.

Go figure.

Tom

This is not about Fox News. Read the above posts. Again, Fox News did not start the investigation. You are a smart guy. Read some background information before you jump to conclusions.

FYI, at least one ABC journalist covered it and here's what he reported:

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2009/09/census-severs-relationship-with-acorn.html

The reason the mainstream media hasn't picked up the story is simple: they don't want to give Fox News their due. By doing so, they would legitimize them as a news organization. The "Big 4" are happy to allow them to be bashed as the "network of the right-wing lunatic fringe." The Van Jones story was a fabulous example and Judy Miller, a former NY Times reporter and Fox News analyst chided her former employer for not covering it.

However, there are legitimate concerns in this story that should alarm you and everyone here as professional tax preparers. The level of fraud being openly discussed by these "tax experts" of ACORN is astonishing. Watch those tapes and tell me you are not disturbed by what you hear. While I laughed until I cried, I was stunned at the outright fraud discussed on the tapes at all three locations.

You should be as well.

Tom

This guys name is James O'Keefe (the "Pimp" and supposed instigator) who is behind this, there's some more information on biggovernment.com about him. He's done some other things, like tried to get Lucky Charms taken out of his college cafeteria due to Irish discrimination.

The tapes do appear to be edited. Mr. O'Keefe provides a transcript for some of this to his credit, and to me, it does not always match up.

Regardless, ACORN knows that the heat is on. Yes, considering that the big banks and financial institutions of this country have basically stolen us all blind, and taken our tax dollars to boot, the smear campaign of the far right is against ACORN. The banking crisis is not really solved to this day.

ACORN has to be beyond reproach going forward, and pay for it's past sins. Too bad we did not take the same approach, and apply the same standards, when dealing with the pillars of capitalism.

CNN has covered this. The media is being careful because these are prank type events, the whole story is still coming out, and they don't want egg on their faces.

There's more coming out, or at least Glenn Beck says he's got something big for tommorrow night.

"Judy Miller, a former NY Times reporter and Fox News analyst chided her former employer for not covering it." Judy Miller, that same person who helped create Saddam's Weapons of Mass Destruction? Her commenting on the news is rich.

James O'Keefe said on Beck yesterday that he and Hannah had spent around $1,400 dollars on this whole affair. That defies logic, to me.

These videos are being rolled out in a well orchestrated plan. So, I want to know the rest of the story, and then I'll make up my mind. There are more videos in the pipeline, I think. I want more information on how this was put together, and how it was rolled out.

Kevin is absolutely correct we would be suspended from practice for this advice.

Crow, I read the transcripts and while I agree somethings are left out, I do believe the context of the videos are mostly accurate. I also read they are doing everything from Saul Alinsky's "left-wing" playbook, Rules for Radicals. I believe it's Rule #8, "Keep the pressure on. Never let up."

It appears now ACORN is changing its tune. They are undergoing an internal review. Smart move.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0909/27236.html

Tom

I too get a chuckle from these videos, and I feel certain that ACORN is going to pay the price.

But, there was a lot of taxpayer money that was stolen by banks, call it what you will. The committee overseeing the TARP basically got an admission from Treasury Sec. that the first $250 billion of TARP money disappeared into the ether. I believe some of that money has now been converted from debt into equity in the banks that is held by Treasury to pay us back. If that equity becomes worthless, and there is still an excellent chance that it will, it makes ACORN look like mighty small potatoes.

Seems quite a bit of it went to the informants who ratted out Hussien. And now the US has posted a bounty of some $25 MILLION for the pelt of bin Laden in Afghanastan. Lots of money goes out with very little accounting.

It seems some of our Armed Forces, or more likely various military contractors, might have come home with more than the usual contraband associated with war time.

All of this was blamed on minor problems with "accounting controls".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrpRGZq7Z-U

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JreAUzmf6VM

"The reason the mainstream media hasn't picked up the story is simple: they don't want to give Fox News their due" your quote. I guess info comes from Glen Beck, Bill O'Rielly, Shawn Hannity.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0909/27186.html

Read the whole article and see what I mean.

What ACORN was saying before they funding started drying up was "These kids are to blame, so is Fox News, wah, wah, wah. Poor us." Then that nonsense with the former escort It's the equivalent of the politician accepting bribe money on camera two days after he's caught saying "Oh that... uh, see what I was doing there was I was investigating them."

ACORN's people put themselves in this position, not O'Keefe, Giles or Fox News.

Tom

PS: Crow - FYI, I also didn't think TARP was a great idea either. I felt that money would have been better spent elsewhere. I feel the same way about the Stimulus Plan and the Iraq War.

http://www.askbutwhy.com/2009/08/william-k-black-great-american-bank.html

I love the title of his book: The Best Way to Rob a Bank Is to Own One

And it is not just Fox but the screamers on MSNBC like Olbermann, Chris Matthews and now Maddow. They, and Fox and others have reduced news to sound bites. Can anyone imagine Chris Matthews, Hannity, Olbermann, O'Reilly and company doing a segment poking fun at themselves and their attitudes as Jon Stewart does above?

Here is a decent source of media criticism, and not Fox criticism but of WAPO, the NY Times and others: http://www.dailyhowler.com/

I have this memory of a night in June, 2006, laying in a hospital bed after a prostate operation. My neighbor played his television all night, and yes it was Fox News, reporting on the killing of a major Al-quaeda operative, Al-Zarqawi, in Iraq. Hour after hour they brought out talking heads, former military and from the administration and Dick Cheyney's bunker, telling us of the importance of this event, which would surely cripple the enemy and bring a quick end to the war. Well, that was the story that night.....what a lot of piffle, but fed to us almost like Big Brother in 1984. I doubt the other networks were any better but my neighbor did not use his remote. To escape, I found some old movie channel and turned up the volume.

Hitler was well aware of this himself, and after he used his most dispicable thugs to gain power, he...eliminated them.

This was referred to as the "Night of the Long Knives". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_of_the_Long_Knives

Moral: you only need the Teabaggers and the other rednecks to take back power, once you get that power back...you don't need them, they're inconvenient.

The TEA Party movement does not have anyone in power and has no military power. That makes a big difference.

Fox News, MSNBC, CNBC, et. al., have host and pundits who scream. The pundits all talk over each other and it makes your head hurt. Each one has an agenda and each changes facts to fit their audience.

But I have one question: would NBC, CBS, et. al., have held up a video made by two young people, similar to O'Keefe and Giles with a similar axe to grind, of a Christian based group loosely tied with say, Sarah Palin? Just wondering...

Tom

Now to America. The Republican Party. The Party is really about money, Big Money. The people that control this party could care less about morals. In fact, the people that control the Republican party are not even politicans, for the most part.

But, there are not enough rich people to elect a candidate of the rich to office. The question then becomes in a democracy: how do you trick a large enough group of people to vote against their own economic interests and to vote for the interests of the rich?

The answer? You use: "morals", racial purity, nationalism, "religion", gay bashing, (for years, they were against women too), conspiracies, unchecked greed... you use these things to appeal to the most base instincts of the majority.

But, every once in a while, you have to get rid of the lunatics because they start going too far. Just like Buckley had to get rid of the Birchers. They serve their purpose (God forbid they blow up a federal building (the para-military wing) or do some other outrageous act), then you must get rid of them.

Most of these Teabaggers (or other hangers on) are just being used. They are puppets really. The job of Limbaugh, Hannity, Beck, O'Riley etc. is to stir up this group of goons so they go on the attack. Keep their eyes on everything but that fact that they are being used. And they are well paid for doing this.

[Tom, there are some people who are Republicans because they really do believe in certain moral issues. The problem is is that they don't realize that the people that run the Party could care less. Even some Bishops have been fooled by this (Abortion example). My argument would be: let's make abortion rare through education and a fight against poverty and in favor of hope.]

Congress has acted and cut off ACORN realizing they are poisonous. It's too bad it had to come to this for ACORN.

Crow, this is the same tired rehash I've heard before about the Republican Party. I am not a Republican. I am what you consider a blue dog Democrat. I have worked for parties of political stripes. I have also worked with libertarian groups. It comes from working in DC, I suppose. I've mentioned it before, but I've seen this stuff in action first hand working for a powerful political operative in DC and yes, they were conservative. Before that, many clients at a firm I worked for were staunchly left-wing operatives and I learned much from them.

Both sides have an axe to grind. While I understand your point, I believe it's far-fetched. Look what happened when Timothy McVeigh blew up the Murrah Building. No one wanted any part of him.

The far left has its crazies just as the far right. Look at all the violence back in the 1960's and '70's. Who committed those acts? It wasn't the right-wing nut jobs, but the radical left, some of whom are in positions of power today. They have blood on their hands from that time. Before you bring up the obvious retort I know is coming about certain right-wing extremists, I am dead set against that as well (read your last sentence).

This really is not about that in the end. What about people who ACORN openly commit fraud on their tax returns? Who speaks for those poor individuals? Let's say a tax preparer at ACORN says, "Let's get you a better refund. You have two dependents, not one" or creates a phony Schedule C as a "performing artist" to take losses against income? Is ACORN going to be responsible to pay back the money? Not on your life. That's where I am mad about this more than anything else. It really has nothing to do with media coverage. Who is going to speak for the poor if they are victims of these "tax preparers" if they are willing to assist two lily-white kids masquerading as a pimp and a prostitute in committing fraud?

Tom

Toacpa, I think this is exactly why some kind of license for tax-preparers is a good thing. Make sure all preparers have a PTIN so they can be tracked and prosecuted if wrong doing and fraud has occured. Any kind of fraud in the tax prep business makes us all look bad. And we know there is a lot of fraud with "EIC".

As far as the "two lily-white kids masquerading as a pimp and prostitute", I am sure at the end of the day, when the truth comes out, they will have some kind of connection with Glen Beck and Fixed News.

I hope I've gone over the edge Snowbird. Remember, a federal building got taken out during the Clinton administration. Of course, we all know that McVeigh was a libertarian....(paramilitary right wing nut), a Republican would never do that.

You let some people get an earful of the half-baked stuff Beck spews out night after night, and some of the other right wing whackos, and you don't know what can happen.

How much less could they care?

Crow, do you think the Democrats are different? Do you not think they pander to extremists during election time, and then cast them aside afterwards? You make it sound as if Republicans and/or conservatives have a corner on the dishonesty market.

The corporate interests that control the Republican Party have cost these same Teabaggers around 2 Trillion dollars in increased taxes due to their recklessness on Wall Street, but ACORN is the danger.

ACORN needs to be investigated, no doubt. But this is like a magic act, they get you watching ACORN to take your eyes off the real trick: the corporate malfeasance that got us here.

In fact, I heard this week that we might not get to financial regulation this year, and maybe not at all. Can you imagine that? You can steal 2 Trillion dollars, and suffer no consequences at all.

[Trust me Jerry, I am disgusted with some of the Democrats too. A lot of them are on the $ corporate take as well, Republican lite. For God's sake, The Baucus Plan is a Democrat plan, worked out with the Republicans. It's nothing more than a gift to the health insurance companies]

As far as I've read & heard, those two kids have no ties to Beck. However, to show you how "unbiased" the media truly is, here is how the Washington Post described O'Keefe and Giles, "O'Keefe, a self-described filmmaker, and Giles, the eldest daughter of a conservative Christian minister in Miami, visited ACORN offices in the summer....Giles is a journalism novice who has written two columns for the conservative Web site Townhall.com. Her father, Doug Giles, serves as minister of the ultra-conservative ClashChurch near Miami, where he proclaimed that liberals "spit on the Word of God,". Now what that has to do with anything is beyond me.

Compare that with what they never said about ACORN's board of directors and who is on it, for example, Henry Cisneros. A former Clinton cabinet official, who pleaded guilty to lying to the FBI in his background investigation. He was later pardoned by Clinton.

Complain all you want about biased media coverage by Fox. It works both ways. The Post does it as much as Fox.

Crow - I already mentioned McVeigh, but what about all the left-wingers back in the day who tried to bomb the Pentagon who are not remorseful in the least? What about the violence at left-wing protests, such as vandalism, riots, burning of cars, confrontations with police? That doesn't count?

Both sides are equally guilty of horrible distortions of the truth, which is why you cannot rely on anything you hear on any channel. You have to look at the legislation, read veteran writers and reporters and not listen to these talking heads. Do your own homework, your own research and find out the truth. It's easy to find the most current & correct information, not the spin version.

Yesterday, Nancy Pelosi got emotional. She didn't help any by calling protestors "un-American." Joe Wilson didn't help any by yelling out "You lie!" to Pres. Obama during his speech. It just goes around and around.

By the way, I can't stand Beck. He's the worst. Hannity is another. He's not that well thought of by some in conservative circles.

GE stands to make a lot of money off cap and trade from what I've read. No wonder they love Obama. Talk about corporate greed.

A friend of mine, who worked as a House & Senate legislative writer on Capitol Hill said it best, "Bush pushed the economy to the cliff while drunk. Obama just did it with steroids."

Tom

As far as Glen Beck is concern, it has been shown over and over how much of liar he is. I did not like him when he was on CNN.And at Fixed news he is right at home with the other right-wing liars(Shawn Hannity, Bill O'Rilley, Dog face Gretta.

Now Bush was a total clueless draft-dodger (Like Clinton & Cheney). I served under Bush Senior command during the first war with Iraq. In fact, he was the first President I voted for. Hated to see him lose against Clinton. Then voted for Bob Dole(he lost against Clinton also). I then switch and went for Al Gore and John Kerry. 'Military men. I even voted for McCain. Prayed to God that if McCain won, The Good Lord would keep him alive. Could not see that dumb "Twit" Sarah Palin one step away from the oval office. I have not made up my mine on Obama yet. If a military man or woman runs against him, they will have my vote. If not I will be praying for "devine" gudiance again.

BTW Taocpa, I see Fixed news villian for next week is that tax-evader Charlie Ranger.

Here's something to warm the hearts of all, including both Snowbird and Crow, from the pen of James Grant.

"Now comes the bill for that binge and, with it, cries for even greater federal oversight and protection. Ben S. Bernanke, Mr. Greenspan’s successor at the Fed (and his loyal supporter during the antideflation hysteria), is said to be resisting the demand for broadly lower interest rates. Maybe he is seeing the light that capitalism without financial failure is not capitalism at all, but a kind of socialism for the rich."

The blog entry takes you back a year ago when everything fell apart. http://patrickdeneen.blogspot.com/2007/08/socialism-for-rich.html

But, the actual release of the videos is a planned event, there's no question about that. It's the fire in the trash can everyone rushes to put out while the theives clean out the safe.

It's the diversion while the Wall Street crooks and the bankers water down or eliminate financial industry regulation. It's the diversion while they try to pull the Buacus "compromise" over the public's eyes (like a sheet you cover the dead with).

Who wins from all this? $$ That's what it's all about. And that's where you start looking. There are crooks, and then there are CROOKS; and we are letting the real crooks get away with the prize.

By the way, it wouldn't completely surprise me if Obama doth protest too much. He seems to keep throwing the game accidentally on purpose, and he might be a lot friendlier to the money intrests than anyone in their wildest dreams might suppose.

As far as "Fixed News", I'm just not going there anymore, except to say, notice where President Obama is not going today on the Sunday talk show circuit. It seems he is being a petulant child by not doing so and I thing that's just plain silly. Even Clinton would not have carried on this way. Every chance Obama gets he takes a shot at Fox it denigrates him more. It makes him look childish. So now you can say the other channels are part of the Democratic National Committee based on your logic. It makes no sense.

KeithR - what you said is the way I feel. Not only the poor advice, but how wrong it was and how much trouble anyone would had they followed it. ACORN wouldn't be around to bail them out.

David - I was just point out the WaPo writer intentionally wrote his article in such a way to rile the regular readers of the Post, who happen to be liberal. It happened they ticked off liberals a few weeks back with a "puff piece" on a conservative. I also don't recall the Post helping Bush getting elected either time. I recall they endorsed both Gore and Kerry.

Now, ACORN is being defunded by the government and cleaning up their act. What is on those tapes is indefensible, no matter who made them.

Tom

As far as Obama, I voted for McCain. So, dont care that much for him. I would agree with him not to go on Fixed Entertainment News. Not a real news organization anyway. Not that many journalists on that entertainment channel anyway. Only radio talk-show shock jocks. I remember Bush and Cheney used to go on that Entertainment channel all the time. Bush & Cheney avoided real news organizations.

ACORN should be disbanded. Anything that got it start in Arkansas, well that says it all. Also, I read somewhere that in certain states like California and a few of the other states, it is illegal to video tape people without their knowledge. So maybe the Pimp and prosistute actors who did the tapes will end up in "jail" with the "ACORN employees. That would really be "poetic justice".

Remember, these videos were in the "can" just waiting for an opportune time to release them. They don't want the public paying attention to what really matters.

So, I do agree with you that it's all about money, BUT it makes it a lot easier to work out the really high dollar deals when the public is occupied fussing over something like ACORN. The fact that ACORN is NOT related is what makes it such a great diversionary tactic, plus it's easy for the public to understand.

To add to what you were saying. I bet some of the executives of those Banks and AIG that we bailed out with TARP: got bonuses last year more than ACORN ever got from the Fed gov. I saw a segment of the news the other day of how Bank "That Rip" off America are now ripping off people with debit cards. Nothing on Fox Entertainment News about that. Didn't Bill O'Rilley use to be on the show 'a Current Affair or Extra. Now he is Fixed Entertainment News biggest star.

I'm no fan of ACORN. What those people did in those videos were wrong. But for Fixed News to devote that much time on ACORN is telling. I see they are pissed at OBAMA for snubbing them this morning. Fixed Entertainment News has declared all out war on Obama.

the underage south american girls made me cringe though. Somehow I cannot imagine someone straightfaced answering a question about buying girls with 'you can claim them as dependents'.

and http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5i81fKPWi8LvB7KzMo3g0Te60YokQD9AT7N5G1.

Non-payment of withholding taxes should send the responsible parties to jail if they cannot put up the money. This includes Ms. Lewis and fellow officers.

Yet I do note the photo of Ms. Lewis selected by the NY Post. Compare it to the photos of Conrad Black. Anyone remember if Lord Black's trials were ever top of the hour on Fox?

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/11/business/media/11black.html

If she isn't providing 'relief' to her clients, then she is not providing a community service.