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Discussion Forum Index --> General Chat --> 9-11

Taxaway (talk|edits) said:

10 September 2011
I've deleted my observations, obviously was not suitable for certain posters.

CrowJD (talk|edits) said:

11 September 2011
The world has changed a lot. I am not taking sides on this because I'm just studying it as a sociologist of religion. Appearantly a new religion has sprung up called Chrislam.

Here is prophet Jack Van Impe giving prophesy:


I don't know how I missed it this summer, but Van Impe had a dust up with TBN and left.

Van Impe was complaining about >>>>CHRISLAM<<<<


"Paul" as referred to by Van Impe is Rev. Paul Crouch who owns the TBN satillite network with his pink-haired wife Jan Crouch. One of his sons is named Matt Crouch. I think he's a minister too. Big dust up here.

I am NOT a Rick Warren supporter, nor do I support TBN, nor do I support Van Impe (I think they're all nuts). I'm just posting this as a sociologist of religion to point out some of the developments in the country since 911.

PollyAdler (talk|edits) said:

11 September 2011
Crow, the Blue shoe vs. Green shoe dust up is moving INSIDE the Christian church!

Here is more Rev. Van Impe and Dr. Roxella Van Impe on the new Chrislam movement:


Minister is going against minister and church against church. A minister divided against himself cannot stand.

Who said that? Betsy Ross, that's who.

CrowJD (talk|edits) said:

11 September 2011
Polly, here is my opinion on ALL of it. I bunch the Rick Warrens and the TBNs in with the Van Impes and with the Muslims too. They are all cuckoo. Listen to this:


Snowbird (talk|edits) said:

12 September 2011
Crow, Polly, etc ... anyone with at least 6 multiple personalities ( MPD or DID take your choice) calling someone else nuts and cuckoo .... LOL!!!

You made my day!!!

Gazoo (talk|edits) said:

12 September 2011
I didn't know about this split between the Van Impe faction and the Crouch syndicate until this morning when I saw Jack and Roxella on TV.

End time prophet Jack Van Impe claims he will not be returning to the Crouch fold and he plans to continue to fight C-h-r-i-s-l-a-m. He will call names and shame fellow ministers. More updates to follow.

In the meantime, here is a clip of Roxella Van Impe after she appears to have taken a snootfull of the stuff. Jack's patience is sorely tested in this clip:


Snowbird (talk|edits) said:

13 September 2011
Taxaway, I am sorry that you took the message down for I very much appreciated it. We are all very much Americans from the first responders in NYC, to the brave men and women who took flight 93 down, the responders in the Pentagon and the young men and women in Iraq and Afghanistan ... we can be proud of them all. 911 reminds me that NYC is something bigger than NYT and Paul Krugman, that the arm services are more than the industrial military complex and that common people can show uncommon valor and sacrifice.

As far as those who talk to themselves ... it's a harmless diversion. Where is Father Mac anyway?

CrowJD (talk|edits) said:

13 September 2011
It also reminds me that George Bush sat (he actually lingered) in an elementary school classroom while two planes crashed into the World Trade Center.

It's rather shocking to compare the timeline of the attacks and his timeline at the school.

Now I wasn't going to bring this up, but if folks are going to get offended then I'll get offended.

President Bush was unbelievably negligent both before and after these attacks and history will show it (dispite his desparate attempts to rewrite it).

Snowbird (talk|edits) said:

13 September 2011
Yep, I agree with you. He should have ducked into a phone booth, put on his superman suit and flew faster than a speeding bullet to stop the 2nd and 3rd planes. Unfortunately, elementary schools don't have phone booths anymore.

It is interesting to read Bush's rational for what he did those minutes. Was it the right decision ... probably not for a pure political view. Don't it make any difference ... no! There was nothing that he could have done in those minutes that made any difference. Although, personally, I thought he should have immediately order a nuclear strike on Cuba ... that makes about as much sense as what you wrote in this thread :)

CrowJD (talk|edits) said:

13 September 2011
Snowbird, he had good intelligence before the attacks that the U.S. would be attacked using passanger aircraft, and on the day of the attacks there was plenty of time to prevent all but the first collision.

Now to prevent the collisions civilian aircraft would have had to be shot down. That is a big step and frankly I'm not sure I could do it myself. Then again, I didn't take the oath of office.

Personally, I think Bush was caught like a deer in the headlights for some time that morning (he knew he had let one slip by), and his staff on the ground in Sarasota completely failed him. Every one of them should have been fired. For example, the Secret Service followed procedure with the VP, but not with Bush.

Had the Secret Service followed procedure and immediately gotten him to Air Force One (like they got Cheney to the basement of the WH), I think Bush could have gotten hold of himself.

The biggest irony of 911 is that we had decent intelligence before the attack. It wasn't perfect, but it was pretty damn good. When you think of all the billions spent since then on a top heavy worthless bureaucracy (Dept. Homeland Security, etc.), it really makes one sick.

I think we are actually less prepared today because we have information overload.

Also, you guys should not criticize my religious commentary. We are in somewhat of a religious war in this country right now. You can look at these "little" disputes between people like Matt Crouch and Van Impe and learn something.

I think Huntington thought the clash of civilizations would be between geographic borders, not necessarily inside them. Maybe he forsaw this, I don't remember. France is essentially secular and look what they are going through in dealing with "true believers", and just imagine what's in store for America since we have at least two sets of "true believers".

Snowbird (talk|edits) said:

13 September 2011
Only Gazoo knew it was going to happen, but he didn't start posting until 2008 ... so it is all his fault. " good intelligence before the attacks that the U.S. would be attacked using passanger aircraft" ... I take it you did not pass this along to the 911 commission because it's not in their reports. By the way the Summary is interesting reading.

CrowJD (talk|edits) said:

13 September 2011
The bipartisan 911 Commission was a joke. You can bet when the government appoints a commission to investigate, it will not investigate.

It was a forwarding looking report which is exactly what you'd expect.

The Commission: The Unsensored History of the 9/11 Investigation, Phillip Shenon (2008) is a good book on the Commission.

We had good intelligence both from the CIA and from Russian intelligence. It wasn't perfect in that it did not provide targets, but it was correct about the means of the attack.

Snowbird (talk|edits) said:

13 September 2011
Yep, Jesus did not die, FDR allowed Pearl Harbor, JFK was killed by CIA, Moon Landings did not happen ... I read that in books too! Actually, the hijackers were martians stranded here trying to get back to Mars ... how do you think Gazoo got here ... all a big government cover-up.

I agree with taxaway, this is insane and irreverent and I will stop posting ... if I can help myself.

CrowJD (talk|edits) said:

13 September 2011
It is not insane, "moon landings", "CIA" or any of the rest of it.

Fortunately, history will win out on it as it always does, especially in this affair since there is so much information available.

If anyone is interested:

The first comfirmed notice Bush got (of the first crash of American 11 into the World Trade Center) was when he arrived at Booker Elementary, and before he went inside. He received this in person from U.S. Navy Captain Debra Loewer (Situation Room Commander who was with the motorcade that day).

In fairness to Bush, this was the first crash and he did not have all the information that the FAA had. So Bush was at least advised of a potential problem before he walked into the school.

There was never any authorization to shoot down any aircraft until after United 93 had already crashed. This authorization was given by the Vice President. United 93 was the last active hijacked aircraft and it's the one that the passengers brought down on their own (which was truly an heroic act).

One of the many surprising things about 9/11 is that at no time, even after the Pentagon was hit, was there top down management (or any management) from the Administration of the affair. There was no general scramble of aircraft or anything like that. It was primarly managed by the FAA and Norad, and primarily the FAA. The scrambling of aircraft was on an ad hoc basis (highest rank was a Col. Marr, NORAD, and it was mainly handled by a Maj. Nasypany, NORAD), AND while the incidents were actually ongoing there was never any authorization to fire.

Kevinh5 (talk|edits) said:

13 September 2011
Can't we just be thoughtful, prayerful, and thankful, without having to make further comments?

Zokan (talk|edits) said:

13 September 2011
+1 for Kevin.

Taocpa (talk|edits) said:


Thank you, but it's hard for me to pass on this since I worked in DC at the time, had friends witness the crash at the Pentagon and had cousins who worked in NYC, one for the NYFD. One client lost two friends when the Pentagon was attacked.

Crow, you really just believe the conspiracy theories and nothing more. Next thing you know, you will be talking about "black helicopters." Regardless of what you hear, Clinton had a shot at bin Laden. He passed because of the UAE. Michael Schuer of the CIA's bin Laden unit confirmed it.

Bush did the right thing. Why panic a bunch of school children? It's not like he could have done anything that wasn't already in the works.

It also was going to take time to fire up Air Force One and secure it. Watch the interviews with Col. Mark Tillman, then the Air Force One captain. They had to re-scan the passengers of Air Force One.

When you hear fighter jets screaming, I mean SCREAMING, over your city in combat patrol, then tell me about it.

You watched it on television. Many of us lived the panic and uncertainty.


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