Discussion:What is the best way to handle 'wrong' answers

This is a 'community' so I want everyone to be treated as I would want to be treated.

1) How would you want to be told that your answer is 'incorrect'?

2) At what point (if any) should we deal with those consistently not correct?

3) How?

I don't think we should just pile on someone and say, "WRONG, YOU MORON!" although there is that urge to do so. Simply nudging them in the right direction is more appropriate without bringing in their background (although there can be that urge as well).

Here is one thing to consider: we really don't know the person on the other end of the keyboard, whether it be the person asking the question or the "professional" answering the question. Many of us have put enough information in here to give us some idea about ourselves, such as yourself Kevin, I have, Natalie and many others. Many of us have gotten "to know" each other in this community, so we can joke about things, like setting fire to a kitchen, Fred for President, dead kittens, etc.

But we really don't know each other. So that area of tax could not be their strong area, but others might be. We should simply tell them politely, "You may want to re-read the question...", etc. It happened to me a couple of times, where I knew the answer and I misread the question. My answer would have varied slightly if I didn't miss that small detail.

If it's so consistent, then a friendly suggestion to brush up on their taxes isn't a bad thing. I would suggest to do that on the discussion page.

And if they don't listen, well we can just ignore them.

Just my thoughts right now.

I hope I answered your questions, since I saw you edited the question since I started my response.

Tom

Yes, I edited the Q, as I really want the discussion to be about 'how to handle wrong answers' and not about criticism. I hope that I haven't ever written 'wrong you moron', but some people's comments here have made me think that I may have given this attitude even if I didn't use those words.

I, too, have misread many questions, or read the most recent post without reading the entire thread, giving an answer to the wrong post, which might have been correct for other facts, but not for the question on the table.

"I disagree" or "perhaps you misread/missed point # 5" seems to get the point across most of the time.

The folks posting questions have the responsibility to filter out the good & the bad/incorrect answers and to do futher research to determine the correct answer. If you spend enough time on TA, you quickly learn who to trust and who to ignore. It's similiar to calling the IRS with a question....the answer, unless in writing....is worth what you paid for it. The professionals here know (or should know) to filter the answers according to who responds and to do follow-up research for confirmation. The DIY'ers wanting free advice, oh well. The cost of the free advice is time spent here determining who is really qualified to answer these technical questions.

I am an honest guy, so I will give it to you straight.

You've never used the "wrong, you moron" expression. That was my sense of humor. There are days I would love to say that to some people.

I have notice people have said that you have that attitude. There are times I have noticed it. But that doesn't change my opinion of you. I have a great deal of respect for you and your knowledge. I enjoy reading your responses to questions as I learn from them as well.

However, I really am not sure it's necessary to take someone's credentials into account when they've responded to a question with the wrong answer. It's best to leave that on the sideline.

As I have proudly said, I am an Irishman. Irish diplomacy is defined as "the ability to tell a man to go to hell in such a way he'll look forward to the trip." So I learned the art of diplomacy over the years. Now earlier this year, I wasn't so diplomatic, I shot a lot straighter with people than I usually do, tinged with my usual diplomatic touch. I wasn't looking for an argument, but there was an underlying factor. Sadly, I later found out the roots of it.

First, if I am incorrect, I am a big boy. I can take being wrong. But at least let's try the following:

"You may want to re-read the question again. That might change your response." Or something along those lines.

Second, if it's consistent, then I think a quick chat with them on their discussion page that you (or myself, whomever) noticed their answers are consistently incorrect and they may want to brush up before they keep dispensing advice.

That also answers part 3 as well.

Basically, it's a repeat of my original answer, with one other point:

If they don't comply, we'll just burn them at the stake! (KIDDING!!!!)

Since the only way you get banned around here is violate the rules we can't do that, so maybe we can find a work around like I did with one poster who was inaccurate a lot and simply said, "Some of the advice offered by (this individual) has been called into question by some professionals here..." That way, I dealt with it by telling the original poster that other answers provided might be worth a look, instead of this person. Wasn't nice, but it had to be done.

Tom

Now, questions 2 and 3 are harder to answer. I actually think another question needs to be posed here -- who determines whether someone is wrong? Or how is that determined? Does someone keep a scorecard? Is it enough for two or three people to agree that someone is wrong "often"?

I usually ignore the perpetually wrong answering machine, but when a three times wonder chips in with an answer that indicates that they don't have the foggiest idea what they are talking about, I try to put on my sarcastic hat. While I don't recall writing this, a phrase like "Did they repeal Section 280A?" can sum things up.

I am not sure if Kevin is also alluding to the 'damn the consequences' type answers. Sometimes these make me sick and I wonder how to politely disagree with these.

I had long discussion that my responses were wrong, because I read the instructions to a form, which were not complete enough to handle all situations. Only, by accident, did I read the actual code section. and I understanding how to correctly use the form.

Some times I want to SCREAM at the lack of knowledge of some of the posters on this board, so I think posting to this part of the forum helps people like Kevin and me to vent our frustrations.

Now for the reason I am posting to thread. Awhile ago one of the poster suggested a private forum for some of us not open to the public. I have some real interest in that or another similair project. If anyone is interested please contact me.

I think a private forum is in order, along with a DIY forum as well.

Tom

You know, some people tend not to revisit a discussion once they’ve swooped in like a seagull. So a follow-up post correcting them right then and there is good for the OP and later readers, but doesn’t do much to make the seagull aware that it was wrong.

So maybe the first thing is to figure out is what’s your primary objective? Is it:

• making sure innocent people aren’t misled / protecting TaxAlmanac’s reputation, or
• trying to stop the bad behavior of the recidivist seagull?

The answer to that would probably influence my answers to your three questions, so I’ll hold off on those for now.

Having a correction made would seem to be in everyone's best interest when wrong answers have been given. Whether to / how to shoo the seagulls is definately part of the question I'm asking.

Let's say there's a new poster who starts giving incorrect information. What happens then? Should there be a committee that determines whether a poster has given too many wrong answers?

I do think it's important to have correct answers posted if something is clearly incorrect, regardless of whether the original poster comes back or not.

Joking aside, could the offenders just be asked to think carefully before answering questions in the future as their track record was not so good in the past? By whom? An open forum means that anyone can speak their mind. The goal isn't to stop them from making comments, the goal is to have them make correct and/or appropriate comments.

New posters may not have read enough threads to know the track records.

How to Answer a Question on TaxAlmanac

1. Read the question, then re-read the question.

2. If you don't know the answer off the top of your head, look it up. There is no shame in admitting or saying you have to look it up.

3. Take a moment to compose what you are about to write and cite a Code Section if necessary.

4. Don't take it personally if someone has a different take or angle. Maybe there is information the person left out that was posted later or something in looking at the question that might have been misconstrued or misunderstood.

Anyway, maybe we could direct someone to it if it's a consistent problem or issue.

Add to it as you see fit or change, disregard, whatever. It's just a thought.

Tom

I actually believe that a user could act more or less unilaterally to do this. I do see the point of those advocating a committee of sorts, and agree that it might be better if it could be a group consensus, but (a) what group and (b) how to organize/manage? Also, is there a risk that this could be seen as ganging up on somebody? So, informal discussions among a couple of users (the individuals might vary with the situation) might be enough, given how infrequently this ought to need to happen.

Whether individual or group decision, though, the post to the Talk Page is going to be most effective coming from a user who is likely to be respected by the reader (e.g., hasn’t been one of the ones correcting them a lot in the past, hasn’t been seen by the reader as an opponent on some other issue, etc.). Also, the post needs to be carefully (and calmly!) worded. If it comes too close to sounding like a personal attack or an insult, it may be discounted by the reader or even turned around on the writer as a violation of the code of conduct.

A lot of young professionals, including tax pros, lose clients because they are so focused on spitting out answers that they miss the opportunity to become trusted advisers to their clients. A machine can (and certainly will at some point), spit out answers.

P.S. Since I expect the Pope to be Catholic, I expect a corporation to act like a corporation.

IMHO - there isn't a lot that can be done about the issue raised in this thread with a 'free' forum such as this one. And realistically, the moderator is the only one with any enforcement capability.

Those of us who spend time (too much time?) here learn quickly which responders are reliable without any further research, and which ones are not. Perhaps spending that time here is the price of getting the correct answer guidance necessary to determining the correct answer.

Sometimes I give my answer as a question [see Discussion: Truck Depreciation Recapture] but check out what happens after. It is times like these that I believe I am speaking in tongues.

You have the gift of prophecy and you use it wisely. So speaking in tongues in not too far a stretch....

I am wondering if people who are asking questions are now tax students disguising their homework questions? After reading that question, it fits a pattern of homework type questions. They changed it around a bit, but it does look and smell like homework to me after I read it a few times. Sadly, you, ReadMyLips and Riley2 seem to have gotten taken in if that is the case.

JD, I wonder if our next April Fool's project shouldn't be to answer everyone's questions wrong. That would be fun, wouldn't it?

I agree with JD's conclusion in his post above: too many young professionals, including tax pros, don't take the time to become trusted advisers. They just want to spit out answers and code sections. So I don't know the exact code section off the top of my head. I would rather tell a client let's look into the facts, research solutions and come up with a strategy, then say, "Well, according to Code Section 179 part A subparagraph b, you can't do that."

As far as what do here about incorrect answers, I know Tim has his hands full, but do we have other board moderators appointed to assist Tim? Or are we self-policing to the point where we can appoint a committee to work on a solution? Just wondering.

Tom

Yeah, this is a touchy one. I've been wrong more than most, but hope that I get 51% right. But there is one poster who is nearly always wrong, and posts pretty regularly. When I see "them" post, I immediately go to that thread, feeling an obligation to clean up after so that the poster isn't mislead if that's all they read. Sometimes it's not wrong, just totally irrelevant. Or obvious. And again, I appreciate all the grace shown to me as I continue to learn, and this board has improved my knowledge and skills considerably. But I hate feeling like I have this PT job as a cop to clean up after this other poster. Who knows, Riley probably feels the same thing about me....and I don't know how to solve it other than to keep cleaning up. I am always surprised when I agree with "them" tho'. Shocked is more like it.

I remember when every insurance salesman would suggest meeting with clients and self, and then would look at me and spit out something like, "As you know, David, under Section XXX, (a)(4)(D)(ii), your client can...." and I would sit there like a dummy, or that is how he would make it seem, but I would always reply with 'Would you write that down" so I could look it up later and let my client know what it really said.

Perhaps someone can lend you a wooden stake?

Should I start working on an alliance LOL?

What I find even more interesting about Madame is that she never qualifies an answer with a maybe, or a perhaps or an I think. Maybe she does, and I haven't seen it.

Even though my posts are often wide of the mark (way wide), I try to at least put a qualifier on them, besides I am ignored on the main board anyway by the experienced posters, so there's a safety margin in there.

In my opinion <yeah, I have those sometimes> I think the way to go is to point out that "hey, I think you are wrong and here is why" It's been done politely amongst members who do know their stuff. The great thing about this is sometimes things can be interpreted differently by different people. That's where the aggressive/risk averse conversation with our clients needs to come in.

When I point new people to TA, I tell them that the great thing about this place is that if you post a question and someone gives you the wrong answer 5 others will immediately pipe in to correct it. And, that over time, you will know whose answers you can take almost without question and those who are trying to be helpful but aren't of the level yet.

Pointing out to people that they should do more research before responding to some questions isn't wrong, def, anyone who feels this about a particular poster should let them know. Heck, I sometimes come on strong about subjects, and I'm often told I'm wrong about things <I do collect wives yanno>, but I'm a big boy and if I am wrong, I try to learn from it.

I hate reading code and memorizing sections and half the time if someone cites a reference, I'll have to look it up or google it to understand the conversation. That's why I often defer to those that show the cites. That's not to say I won't disagree with the interpretation, but hey, I like being cantankerous.

Is this really true when it comes to the Consumer forum? It is true I see some of us giving answers, but often the answers are coming from other consumers, so perhaps in the end the consumer will stop coming, and we will have what Uncle Sam and others want, a board for professionals only.

Having said that, there are degrees of expertise and ineptitude, of which the indeptitude seems to be my lot in life, taxwise at least.

Or the problems the IRS wishes to address either.

I agree with those who espouse the "let the buyer beware" - I think this forum should be used to get others' opinions, being only one source of the conclusions we reach for our clients in the nature of sending us in the right direction, always documenting & verifying the opinions for ourselves.

If a wrong answer is given, I think polite wording such as "I respectfully disagree" is a good approach.

I would hesitate to ostracize anyone who seems to be giving a lot of wrong answers (shades of High School), but have no problem with anyone who wants to post on the offenders talk page their observation that frequent careless answers are being posted.

Interesting discussion!