Discussion:US-UK tax treaty question

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Discussion Forum Index --> Advanced Tax Questions --> US-UK tax treaty question
Discussion Forum Index --> Tax Questions --> US-UK tax treaty question

PeteEA (talk|edits) said:

29 October 2009
Hi all

I have a client with the following situation: he is a UK citizen and has lived in the US for 15 years. He has his US green card (so he is a permanent resident of the US).

He has started to receive a UK government pension on a monthly basis. Is this pension taxable in the US?

Per the US-UK tax treaty, article 19 para 2, it states that "a) any pension paid by, or out of funds created by, a Contracting State or a political subdivision or a local authority thereof to an individual in respect of services rendered to that State or subdivision or authority shall, subject to the provisions of sub-paragraph b) of this paragraph, be taxable only in that State; b) such pension, however, shall be taxable only in the other Contracting State if the individual is a resident of, and a national of, that State.

So far so good- he is not a US Citizen so it appears the pension is free of US tax.

However, the treaty contains the "saving" clause in Article 1 para 4 that states "Notwithstanding any provision of this Convention except paragraph 5 of this Article, a Contracting State may tax its residents (as determined under Article 4 (Residence)), and by reason of citizenship may tax its citizens, as if this Convention had not come into effect."

So it appears that because my client is a US resident- he can be taxed on the UK pension.

Further, Article 1 para 5 states: "The provisions of paragraph 4 of this Article shall not affect... (b) the benefits conferred by a Contracting State under... Article 19 (Government Service)... upon individuals who are neither citizens of, nor have been admitted for permanent residence in, that State."

Finally, the technical explanation of the treaty for Article 19 states "an individual who receives a pension paid by the Government of the United Kingdom in respect of services rendered to that Government is taxable on that pension only in the United Kingdom unless the individual is a U.S. citizen or acquires a U.S. green card".

So according to this if my client were a non-resident alien living in the US, the pension would not be taxable in the US, but because he is a permanent resident, the pension is taxable in the US.

Why am I pulling my hair out? Because when you go to IRS publication 901 pg 33 it states that "pensions paid by... the UK [govermnent]... are exempt from US income tax unless the recipient is BOTH a resident and Citizen of the US"

I also called the treaty office at the IRS and they told me the pension is not taxable in the US.

I know IRS publications and advice given over the phone are not the law (and IRS publications are sometimes wrong) but am I missing something here?

Sorry for the long post and thanks for your help!

Pete

Smktax (talk|edits) said:

29 October 2009
Pete, I agree with your analysis. Calling the IRS for a question this complicated is useless unless you know the person you are speaking with is an expert on treaties. It looks to me as though IRS publication 901 is incorrect. As you indicate, you can't rely on the publication.

Guya (talk|edits) said:

29 October 2009
I agree as well. Government pensions are usually only taxable in the home country. You'll need 8833 disclosure plus FBARs. The client will in any case be paying UK tax so he will be paying taxes somewhere.

You may still have to pay State taxes since the Treaty won't apply at State level.

R2 (talk|edits) said:

30 October 2009
I went through an tax audit where the examining agent quoted Pub 901 to exempt my client from US taxes on her UK pension since she only had a green card. Who am I to argue with an IRS auditor?

PeteEA (talk|edits) said:

30 October 2009
If you read pub 901 it states the same rule for most other countries too... the person has to be a US Citizen AND resident for the foreign government pension to be taxable in the US. Could they all be wrong?

Is there some other provision where the US has waived its right to tax these pensions?

LH2004 (talk|edits) said:

October 30, 2009
The publication isn't (completely) wrong, it's just incomplete (and therefore very misleading). The savings clause only "saves" regular tax law with respect to residents as defined in the treaty. Your client is a treaty resident, but not all green card holders are.

R2 (talk|edits) said:

30 October 2009
Correct me if I am wrong, but the savings clause applies for Article 19 (government services) purposes to any person admitted for permanent residence. Presumably, this means that all green card holders are subject to the savings clause as it applies to Article 19.

LH2004 (talk|edits) said:

October 30, 2009
That's true, but the publication would still be correct as to UK government pensioners who meet the physical presence test to be U.S. residents under normal law but are UK residents under the treaty.

NMexEA (talk|edits) said:

30 October 2009
"Doesn't anyone SCREEN these calls?" Ray Magliozzi, Car Talk

LH2004 (talk|edits) said:

October 31, 2009
Wait, I think I got lost here in the exceptions-to-exceptions.

The basic savings clause is Art. 1 sec. 4, that says that the treaty doesn't apply to people who are U.S. residents (as determined under the treaty).

Art. 1 sec. 5(b) (as amended by the 2001 protocol) is an exception to that, saying that Art. 1 sec. 4 does not apply, and therefore the substantive provisions of the treaty do apply, to "the benefits conferred by a Contracting State under paragraph 2 of Article 18 (Pension Schemes) and Articles 19 (Government Service), 20 (Students), 20A (Teachers), and 28 (Diplomatic Agents and Consular Officers) of this Convention, upon individuals who are neither citizens of, nor have been admitted for permanent residence in, that State."

A green-card holder is not an "individual[] who [is] neither [a] citizen of, nor...admitted for permanent residence in" the United States; therefore Art. 1 sec. 5(b) does not apply to him. Therefore he is governed by the normal savings clause. Therefore, if he is liable to tax in the UK by reason of his domicile, residence, citizenship, etc., and either (1) (a) does not have a substantial presence, permanent home or habitual abode in the United States and (b) is not a resident of a third state under another UK treaty, or (2) is considered a resident of the UK under the treaty's tiebreaker rules, then Art. 19 does apply to him and his government pension is not subject to U.S. tax.

Am I missing something this time?

Smktax (talk|edits) said:

1 November 2009
LH, I agree that "Art. 1 sec. 5(b) does not apply to him. Therefore he is governed by the normal savings clause." Under the facts above, he is a green card holder living in the U.S. for 15 years. This would make him a resident of the U.S. and not a resident of the UK. Since the normal saving clause would apply, the U.S. would tax him on the pension.

I believe that Pete's original analysis above quoting the technical explanation said it all: "an individual who receives a pension paid by the Government of the United Kingdom in respect of services rendered to that Government is taxable on that pension only in the United Kingdom unless the individual is a U.S. citizen or acquires a U.S. green card."

R2 (talk|edits) said:

1 November 2009
LH, I think you are saying that it is possible for a green-card holder to be exempt from the savings clause as it applies to Article 19. I believe that you are absolutely correct about that. Quoting directly from Article 4, Paragraph 2:

An individual who is a United States citizen or an alien admitted to the United States for permanent residence (a "green card" holder) is a resident of the United States only if the individual has a substantial presence, permanent home or habitual abode in the United States and if that individual is not a resident of a State other than the United Kingdom for the purposes of a double taxation convention between that State and the United Kingdom.

However, I believe that an alien without a green card is automatically exempt from the savings clause as it applies to Article 19. See Technical Explanation, 7/19/02.

Publication 901 still mystifies me. It states that a UK government pension is exempt from US taxation unless the recipient is both a resident and citizen of the US. I found similar errors in Pub 901 in summaries of other treaties.

LH2004 (talk|edits) said:

November 1, 2009
I agree that it's certainly overwhelmingly likely that a person with a green card who has been in the U.S. for 15 years will be a U.S. resident under the treaty. But in the unlikely event that he is a UK resident under UK law, he could conceivably be a UK resident for treaty purposes (even if he does meet the U.S. connection test of Art. 4 para. 2): for example, if he owns a home in the UK but has been sleeping on different friends' couches for his entire time in the U.S.; or if he has homes in both countries, and has extensive business interests in the UK and not the U.S. Then he would be entitled to the benefits of Art. 19 to exclude the pension from U.S. tax.

Unless I'm missing something else (which is very possible), I think that Pub. 901 accurately explains the treaty rule. It has a brief statement in the beginning about the effect savings clauses: "With certain exceptions, [treaties] do not reduce the U.S. taxes of U.S. citizens or residents." I think that is enough to make everything it says technically accurate, just confusing/misleading. It would certainly be nicer if the publication explained the meaning of "resident" under the treaties and repeated throughout that everything it says is subject to the savings clauses, but I don't think it's technically wrong as is.

PeteEA (talk|edits) said:

4 November 2009
My client wants to proceed by reporting the income as not-taxable under the provisions of Article 19, by how they read pub. 901, and by the advice given by the IRS treaty office.

I've advised them that the letter of the law is that the income is taxable. My client responded that if it ever came up, they would pay the tax and claim a penalty abatement due to incorrect advice given by the IRS!

What a shame- they are a great client but I don't think the position will succeed based on its merits. This basically means I should refuse to prepare the return under these circumstances, right?

R2 (talk|edits) said:

4 November 2009
If there is adequate disclosure and a reasonable basis for the position, you may be able to avoid the 6662 and 6694 penalties. Not sure if completing Form 8833 would constitute adequate disclosure.

PeteEA (talk|edits) said:

4 November 2009
Problem is that based on my research, I don't think that the position would more likely than not be sustained on its merits. I don't think there is a reasonable basis for the position.

R2 (talk|edits) said:

4 November 2009
Not sure if this helps, but the "more likely than not" standard has been deleted from Sec. 6694.

Smktax (talk|edits) said:

5 November 2009
Pete, I wouldn't sign the return. The treaty and the technical explanation seem quite clear. I don't believe that an awkwardly worded and potentially incorrect IRS publication would provide a reasonable basis for taking that position when the actual law is so clear.

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