Discussion:SCorp s/h purchase of asset

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Discussion Forum Index --> Advanced Tax Questions --> SCorp s/h purchase of asset
Discussion Forum Index --> Tax Questions --> SCorp s/h purchase of asset

Uopgrad06 (talk|edits) said:

7 March 2008
Husband and wife are equal and only s/h of s-corp. They are closing the business and want to purchase the assets for personal use. Items include office equipment, showroom furniture, and company vehicle. To keep it clean do they purchase at FMV or BV? Additional information: They are doing this because of the huge s/h loan they made to company of which there are no funds to reimburse. The more research I do on this the more confused I become. I would appreciate any help.

JR1 (talk|edits) said:

March 7, 2008
FMV. Gain recognition on the corp, which flows thru, creates basis...

Dsiclients (talk|edits) said:

7 March 2008
FMV.................... :)

Uopgrad06 (talk|edits) said:

10 March 2008
JR - thought I had replied, but see it's not here. There is no gain recognition on the corp. The s/h have loaned the business so much money that what little "profit" they made didn't come close to satisfying. My concern with using FMV is that it is lower than BV -- specifically the showroom furniture and office equipment. For example, the laptop couldn't be sold for $400 yet it's BV is $1326. By purchasing at the FMV the business takes an even bigger loss. I know this should be elementary but basis is and has been one of those "blocked" areas for me and the full-spectrum light has yet to come on. I'll keep searching unless someone wants to share anymore of their knowledge.

JR1 (talk|edits) said:

March 10, 2008
Well, in spite of your blockage...it's FMV! In your case, loss recognition. Or wait, hmmmm...loss isn't recognized on sale to related party is it? Now the basis folks need to come by....

Uopgrad06 (talk|edits) said:

10 March 2008
JR - thank you for your "reply". or wait, hmmmmmmmmmm---- sarcasm. Seriously -- Every time I search the IRS regulations, publications, codes, etc. it leads me back to pub. 551 -- I've read it over and over again. Is there a specific code to which you could direct me? I don't mind reading just can't find. This is new to me and I don't want to "wrong" a client. If I tell every client that brings me "new stuff" to take it to another tax preparer, I won't ever learn anything. Therefore, I spend hours trying to find the right answers and then try to get additional help or confirmation on this forum. I really am not looking for anyone to do "my research for free", simply asking for direction. Thank you!

Dennis (talk|edits) said:

10 March 2008
JR is not being sarcastic. He's giving you the answer and just isn't sure. Loss between related taxpayers is deferred until disposition in a taxable transaction. Shareholder will get the distribution at corporate basis.

JR1 (talk|edits) said:

March 10, 2008
No, not a code guy except the few that I can remember. But if you dig around for deemed sale perhaps you'll hit something. My only confusion is that related party thing, which might throw my whole fmv thing out the window in this case. Have you got a real research service? BNA, RIA, etc.? I don't think, unless you're Riley, that searching the Code/Regs/Pubs is helpful. First off, Pubs are NOT authoritative in any way. Ever. At all. Second, all you read in the law is the law. No analysis, no case law, no explanations or cross references. I tried 5 min of easy grabs for research and didn't come up with any pointers I'm afraid...no time for more. Corp returns to crank. Hopefully without deemed sale of loss items!

JR1 (talk|edits) said:

March 10, 2008
So Dennis, (you posted while i was digging), in that case, the assets actually are distributed at basis?

Dennis (talk|edits) said:

10 March 2008
Been a long time for me, JR, but that is the way I remember it. Shareholder takes the loss on personal return if there is no conversion to personal property before he throws it out.♫

Uopgrad06 (talk|edits) said:

10 March 2008
JR & Dennis -- thanks so much. All the codes do is confuse me more by continually linking me to another code, and Riley isn't participating. So, I'm going with what I know to be the most accurate. Maybe ProSeries will note an error if I am incorrect. I had forgotten about the publications not being authoritative -- seem very useless at that point. Oh well -- welcome to the government. Thanks again you two for your input and taking the time during this busy week.

Hapernicus (talk|edits) said:

17 July 2008
I think JR is correct.

I found this IRS examining process, "4.11.7.6 (12-01-2004)Corporation's Gain or Loss" http://www.irs.gov/irm/part4/ch10s03.html#d0e194476

The loss appears to be limited by code section 336(d)

Riley2 (talk|edits) said:

18 July 2008
Under 336(d), the loss from the distribution to the shareholder should be allowed unless the distribution is nonprorata or the property is disqualified property.

Marcilio (talk|edits) said:

18 July 2008
In general, the liquidation of an S-corporation is taxed in the same manner as the liquidation of a C-corporation, except where application of these provisions is inconsistent with Subchapter S (Code Sec. 1371(a)). Therefore, as an S-corporation distributes appreciated property in exchange for the stock of its shareholders pursuant to a complete liquidation, it recognizes gain (Code Sec. 336(a)). The S-corporation, however, as a conduit does not pay tax on these gains itself; rather, items of income or loss are passed through to be taxed at the individual shareholder level.

A shareholder's basis in property received pursuant to a complete corporate liquidation is the fair market value of the property received. This is because the transaction is treated as a taxable sale or exchange of the property. It is as though the shareholder sold its stock in the corporation for the property received. The shareholder's amount realized on this sale or exchange is the fair market value of the property on the date of distribution (Code Sec. 334(a)).

As the shareholder assigns a new fair market value basis to property received, the shareholder may not tack onto its holding period that of the distributing corporation.

In general, both gains and losses are recognized by shareholders that receive distributions of corporate property, including money, in complete redemption of their stock holdings. The shareholder's recognized gain or loss is computed as the fair market value of the money and other property received on the date of distribution (the shareholder's amount realized on the exchange) less the shareholder's adjusted stock basis (Code Sec. 1001(a)). The gain or loss is generally capital in nature (Code Sec. 1221).

Riley2 (talk|edits) said:

18 July 2008
Very impressive. Did you write that yourself?

Marcilio (talk|edits) said:

18 July 2008
Nope. I use CCH tax research..did a copy & paste job. You've seen the stuff I write. I wanted to show that I know how to look up a citation. ☺

Sheldon (talk|edits) said:

28 August 2009
Since section 336 is mentioned above, I think this is a good thread to ask my question on liquidation.

We've considered several options for one S corporation owner (both over 20%) to sell to another. One of the attorneys thinks we should look at the owners liquidating and then sale to the other owner at a much higher price that would be indicated by the cost of the current S corporation assets. We have never purchased intangible assets in this corporation. Since section 336 says the "assets" are to be liquidated at FMV, I was hung up on the fact that one of the owners after liquidating would be selling his personal goodwill to the other owner. Is there any danger that the FMV of intangibles would be challenged at the corporate liquidation. The attorney thinks that all goodwill dies at liquidation so the goodwill is obviously ZERO. I wasn't comfortable making that a ZERO when the majority owner was turning around and selling HIS goodwill for a larger number than all of the other amounts in the deal after he receives his S corp liquidating distribution. Has anyone done a liquidation and sale like this or have any help on how to separate the FMV of corporate goodwill or other intangibles from personal professional goodwill when liquidating a S corporation?

Derwood (talk|edits) said:

30 August 2009
Uopg, you should simply liquidate the corp and distribute (@ FMV) all assets to shareholders.

The corp will report a loss on the distribution, since FMV of distributed assets is less than cost basis.

The loss will flow to shareholders via K-1. The loss will be ordinary.

The loss will reduce shareholders' tax basis in the corp.

Have the corp issue the shareholders a Form 1099-DIV and report on it ... the FMV of those distributed assets.

The shareholders' tax basis in the corp will increase by the FMV of the distributed assets.

Report the liquidation of corp stock on shareholders' Schedule D ... Sales price = FMV of assets received ... and cost = tax basis in stock.

Harry Boscoe (talk|edits) said:

31 August 2009
"The shareholders' tax basis in the corp will increase by the FMV of the distributed assets."

If this is going to be the liquidating distribution, won't the shareholders' tax basis in the corporation's stock remain unchanged by the distribution? The stock is being surrendered.

Sheldon (talk|edits) said:

21 October 2009
I still didn't get a response on the fact that the primary S corporation owner is also selling his personal goodwill in an installment sale at a much larger price than the liquidating distribution will be once the corporation is liquidated. Does section 336 make the corporation value it's intangible assets, if there is another transaction selling the rest of the company to another owner? We want to protect the installment sale of the owner's personal goodwill. Would some of that have to be attributed to the S corporation that is being liquidated?

Wiles (talk|edits) said:

21 October 2009
Sheldon, This is a dilemma for the professional service S-Corp where each shareholder thinks they each own their own client list. While, you and I and that attorney believe that most or all of the goodwill is outside the corporation, the IRS would argue otherwise.

I have some complex ideas, but I am going to pass on sharing those for now and fast forward your transaction above. In your transaction, what will happen after the new owner purchases the intangible of the retiring owner? Is the new owner going to recapitalize the old corporation with his new asset? Is the new owner opening up his own business? Basically, how will the new owner get his new amortization deduction?

Sheldon (talk|edits) said:

11 November 2009
Thank you Wiles, I didn't realize until now that you responded. We have considered several options and now are trying to get the 2 attorneys to agree on something. There might be a new corporation for the buyer, but now we seem to lean towards a low-priced stock purchase between the owners of the stock and then the current corporation would be paying the primary owner for personal goodwill on an installment note and amortizing it. This seems like it might work fairly well without a lot of complications. Any further thoughts?

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