Discussion:Loss on Personal Residence Sold by Estate

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Discussion Forum Index --> Advanced Tax Questions --> Loss on Personal Residence Sold by Estate
Discussion Forum Index --> Tax Questions --> Loss on Personal Residence Sold by Estate

Jdcpa01 (talk|edits) said:

6 September 2009
Ok, I have read the previous discussions but am not satisfied with the apparent conflicts, so here we go again. The Form 1041 instructions state that taxable income is figured in the same manner as that of an individual. I have read the SCA 198-012 memo and that is clear as to the IRS advice. Given this research I conclude: A) a Conservative approach would be to not take any loss related to either closing costs or upkeep expenses while the personal residence (NOT income property in any way) was held unoccupied by the estate until sold seven months after the date of death; B) a Gray Area or controversial appoach would be to take this loss as a capital loss and the related upkeep expense as "investment expenses" - I see this as risky since a home (especially in light of recent events) in not an investment property; and C) a Very Aggressive approach would be to take the FMV used for probate and take an actual capital loss upon the sale in addition to the closing costs. My client in this case wants to go "by the book" but has a K-1 showing the loss on sale PLUS the closing costs. I deem this overly adventurous and fraught with peril. Comments?

Riley2 (talk|edits) said:

6 September 2009
Take a look at the Campbell and Carnick decisions. I see no gray area here. The house was never used as a residence by a beneficiary.

Blrgcpa (talk|edits) said:

7 September 2009
The basis is the step up/down in basis at dod, which would be the amount reported to probate. House sold several months later.

Jdcpa01 (talk|edits) said:

7 September 2009
Thanks you two. Riley: My tax research program (Kleinrock) did not show those cases so I Googled general question text and ran into a more recent on-point case in Estate of Pauline Miller v. Com. (1967) but this was all trumped by a Kiplinger site reference to Pub. 559. Therein on pages 16 and 23 I found tax research nirvana! Per the IRS the loss is fully deductible and how to report it when the the estate closed (fiscal year ended in 2009, but a 2008 K-1, but the bene reports in 2009 - year estate ended). It is amazing the level of online confusion that exists on this point ansd that Brookhaven SCA 198-012 "Significant Service Center Advice" was very misleading. Thanks for getting me started.

Blrgcpa: Ah, therein lies the problem. I had difficulty getting past how the personal residence was going to get capital asset treatment in the estate until I thought more about how in most cases the FMV at dod will be the sale price and you basically get a bonus in deducting the closing costs. In this case the estate 1041 preparer (I don't know yet what his qualifications are) simply asked the executor "hey, what do you think the house was worth on dod?" and then he used that $210k FMV and the net sale price a mere 7 months later of $175k to flow thru a cool $35k loss. No cover letter, statement or explanation with the K-1 and I had to get this history from the executor who is asking me "is this going to be allright?" Given the risk-averse nature of these (new) clients, I am going to force them back to the 1041 preparer to discuss the amount that should have been listed on the probate inventory and to be sure they are giving a green light in writing to proceed with claiming this loss.

Yet another case of "if it sounds to good to be true it probably is." This was my first use of this site (I am a small-firm Proseries user) and I appreciate your getting me started down the right path on this research.

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