Discussion:HOH and maintaining home
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Discussion Forum Index --> Tax Questions --> HOH and maintaining home
| 16 January 2007 | |
| Boy oh boy...do I ever get them!! Client comes to me today...2 individuals living together not married...have 2 children between them. They both pay MORE than 1/2 of the cost of maintaining a home...they rent an apartment "by the person"...kinda like a hotel situation. They each report to slum lord (excuse me) 1 adult/one child. They then get rental of one home based on number of occupants...essentially, this means that each adult pays 100% for the one child and then split the other costs...such as groceries, laundry, etc. How do you deal with this one? | |
Death&Taxes (talk|edits) said: | 16 January 2007 |
| You mean how can two people be the head of one household? Riley commented on the biological parent aspect earlier today. It still should be on this page [wouldn't it be nice if Tim gave us a way to search while keeping this window open?]Found it Discussion: Dependents of Unmarried individuals Hey, Deb, I even added categories! | |
| 16 January 2007 | |
| They are both the biological parents of the 2 children. The issue is about filing for HOH...you must pay MORE than 50% of the upkeep of a home for a dependent....and they BOTH DO!! Thank you D&T; I saw this one earlier....:) | |
| January 16, 2007 | |
| Sandy - How can both pay more than 1/2 the cost of maintaining the home? Anyway, when I have these (and I have several), the parent with the highest income usually files as HOH and claims one child, and the other parent files as Single and claims the other child. | |
| January 16, 2007 | |
| Great, DT! Thanks, and the categories are exactly what I would have added. | |
| 16 January 2007 | |
| Deb....if each parent pays 100% of a rental for an apartment...then voila! they pay over 1/2 of the cost of the home itself...then if they split food, etc...then that is 50%....it is like they have (2) separate homes since rent is based on number of occupants....each pays the rent separately but it is the same apartment....they are being honest about it but don't know if this will fly... | |
| January 16, 2007 | |
| Can just one parent (and his or her child) live in this particular apartment for 1/2 of the total rent paid by both parents? Let's say, one of the parents and one child moves out, would the parent and child who still live there be able to continue paying the same amount of rent that he or she paid before, when four people lived there? | |
| January 16, 2007 | |
| D&T:
You asked about being able to search while keeping the main window you are working on open. I use the Firefox browser, which lets you open multiple tabs. For example, any link that I can click on, I can also right click on and select "Open in new tab". I can have as many tabs open as I want, and switch between them easily. I couldn't imagine working any other way. I can also start a new tab from scratch by pressing Ctrl-T while in the browser. I can use one tab to compose my message and another tab to go search for another discussion to include. Firefox is free and seems to work very well, for me at least. It also has built-in Discussion:Spell Check Feature, which come in handy when I am using the discussion forums. I think the latest version of MicroSoft Internet Explorer (version 7) may also support tabs, but I would hold off on upgrading as there are some problems viewing TaxAlmanac with that version.
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| January 16, 2007 | |
| Internet Explorer has always allowed this, too (right click and open in a new window). I usually have several browser windows open at a time. Have four open right now--and I disabled the tabbed version of 7.0, because I prefer windows. I haven't upgraded to 7.0 on this computer yet, but I plan on doing so soon. It's actually better than the old version, once you fix the toolbar and get used to the refresh button being on the right instead of the left. | |
| January 16, 2007 | |
| Deb:
Beware IE7 for now. MS changed the way they interpret CSS (webpage formatting instructions) and there are some problems with viewing TA currently - for example, the login / userpage link that is normally in the upper right corner is being displayed in the upper left corner, and is hidden underneath the TA logo! We're working to upgrade TA to a newer version to alleviate these issues.
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| January 16, 2007 | |
| Yea, I'm aware of that and reported that to you in another forum a few weeks ago. If I need to get to my user page, I just click my name elsewhere. :) My problem is hitting refresh upstairs on the right and then hitting refresh downstairs on the left...it's wasting some time. heh | |
Death&Taxes (talk|edits) said: | 17 January 2007 |
| Thanks Tim. I am pretty familiar with the off/on switch by now and found the windows key.
Now getting back to Sandy & Deb, do check Quickfinder Page 4-9. It can be done but they cannot share a bedroom, each household had a separate phone and they gave gifts and charitable contributions separately. This is SCA 1998-041. | |
| January 17, 2007 | |
| D&T - LOL
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Death&Taxes (talk|edits) said: | 17 January 2007 |
| Deb, that is Hopkins, a case I am familiar with because of an audit. Appeals Officer actually asked if husband slept there when visiting his kid. My client, the mother, said no. I told the Appeals Officer he could have husband appear if we went to Tax Court, but he dropped it. Later I learned he had other fish to fry with me, and they had nothing to do with taxes so he wanted to remain friendly. Great story that will be in my memoirs. In Hopkins, Separated husband slept on the couch several times when he visited so she lost HOH. | |
Death&Taxes (talk|edits) said: | 17 January 2007 |
| Oops I just your question more carefully, Deb. In Hopkins she did not share a bed, but lost simply because of his presence in the household [this was a six months year of separation case]. I wish I could find a copy of that Service Center Advisory to see whether they insist on celibacy or not. Never knew taxes were this racy, did you? But there is an actual precedence here; people can share houses. When I lived in PA, at least two families shared the house across the street. So I guess we let our minds go off in the gutter, or rather Sandy's clients did this for us, or is it just me? | |
| January 17, 2007 | |
| I was inclined to tell Sandy that both could file as HOH, since they each pay their own rent at 100%. I was kind of waiting for her response to my last question before I responded with this answer. But it makes sense to me, in this case, which is usually not the way it is when two people live together. | |
Death&Taxes (talk|edits) said: | 17 January 2007 |
| Solomon SCA 1998-041 is how it is cited in Quickfinder. | |
| 17 January 2007 | |
| Had a IRS auditor tell me that "One roof equals one head of household", unless a duplex arrangement with 2 kitchens, bedrooms, etc. | |
| January 17, 2007 | |
| How would you handle Sandy's client's, DZ? From the way I understand their situation, they have to pay double the rent for four people, compared to the rent they would pay for just two people, and each parent pays their full 100% share of their own rent. | |
| 17 January 2007 | |
| One gets head of household using the same address. My case had to do with 2 gay men with 2 children in same "household". Both tried to file HOH. It did not work when audited. I have seen where preparers use different addresses like Unit A and Unit B at same address and get away with it. | |
| 17 January 2007 | |
| SCA 1998-041. | |
Corptaxhelp (talk|edits) said: | January 17, 2007 |
| The only time I ran into this, an unmarried couple was living together in Apartment 2101. On all documents (tax, magazine subscriptions and otherwise) the man used Apt. 2101-A and the lady Apt. 2101-B. The rent situation was similar to Sandysea's where each could legitimately claim more than 1/2 the cost. (And, by 'legitimately', I mean 'legitimately where common math rules cease to apply and one-half plus one-half doesn't always equal one'.) Utilities (water, electric) were included in the rent so there were no questions raised as to why one unit only had water and the other only had electricity. For ten or so years they had each been claiming HOH without objection. The Postal Service didn't seem to mind them creating their own addresses. The key to success is being consistent in the apartment subdivision. As the aggressive sort and given their specific situation, I didn't see any reason why they shouldn't continue to each file as HOH. | |
Death&Taxes (talk|edits) said: | 17 January 2007 |
| Where did you dig that up, Solomon? I tried using my Checkpoint but could not find it. Whatever, thanks so much.
Last example is wonderful, but I often wonder if the couple is married in fact and trying to avoid the 'marriage penalty' which if both take standard deduction might be moot. At least twice in the past 25 years, I have only learned of a marriage when they wanted to buy a house and lenders needed to know the truth. | |
Death&Taxes (talk|edits) said: | 17 January 2007 |
| Thanks; I had Unclefed bookmarked on my old laptop but forgot to bring it over. | |
| 17 January 2007 | |
| DT - Easiest way is to key in sca 1998-041 in the search box. | |
| January 17, 2007 | |
| Yea, that would be easy to do, after you've found out the 1998-041 number. How do you find these numbers in the first place? Do you search for something like "head of household" at unclefed.com or do you have another source? | |
Death&Taxes (talk|edits) said: | 17 January 2007 |
| Deb: that # is in the Quickfinder reference I gave earlier....I almost dropped my tea when I saw exactly the situation Sandy was writing about in there. | |
| January 17, 2007 | |
| Would it be beneficial to have Quick Link pages to all of these SCAs? If we did that, then people could link to them easily. Even better would be to actually import that content here on TA so searches would find it. Start to add categories to them like Deb has been doing and TaxAlmanac would be that much more useful.
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| 17 January 2007 | |
| The couple have one apartment...it has 3 bedrooms and a studio...(bf's room). I am sure they share the same bed...no doubt...but the rent is: Girl gets one bedroom for self and one for her child...rent 550.00 month...guy gets one room (studio) for self and one for his child...rent 550.00 per month. Each of the people is on a separate lease with the landlord and each put up separate security deposits....the only thing they share in terms of money is electric, water and groceries.
It is not a subdivided home so I can't do a duplex arrangement. They both have use of the common areas...living room, kitchen and powder room. Each bedroom/studio has one bathroom.... They both make very little money. He made about 17K last year, she about 14K. They both can benefit from HOH, but I also do not want to see them get notices because same address is used. BTW: Child #1 has dad's last name, child #2 has mom's last name. Both biologically parents to both children.... | |
| January 17, 2007 | |
| What would your answer be to the question I asked (way up above) last night? | |
| 17 January 2007 | |
| Which one? hehe. If it is about sharing a bedroom, I am certain they do...after all they already have 2 children....and if it is about whether they will pay the same amount of rent if the other moves out, yes absolutely...2 separate leases on the home and the right of the landlord to rent out the other rooms to other persons if one moves out.... | |
| January 17, 2007 | |
| Can just one parent (and his or her child) live in this particular apartment for 1/2 of the total rent paid by both parents? Let's say, one of the parents and one child moves out, would the parent and child who still live there be able to continue paying the same amount of rent that he or she paid before, when four people lived there? How much would the rent be if one parent and one child moved out of this apartment? | |
| January 17, 2007 | |
| So, if one parent and one child moved out, the landlord could allow a stranger to move into the apartment, even though the other parent and child are still living there? | |
| 17 January 2007 | |
| OK....each parent pays and executes a separate lease agreement with the landlord. The deal is each parent pays 550.00 a month for the use of 2 bedrooms (rooms) with use of common areas. If the remaining parent were to stay with their lease, they would still pay the 550.00 a month and the landlord has the option to rent to another the remaining 2 rooms for another 550.00 a month. The landlord DOES NOT KNOW that these people are related or involved...it is a separate transaction all together.... | |
| 17 January 2007 | |
| Tim - that would be helpful. They are on the same IRS drop box you gave to me for the Revenue Rulings. They are first on the list as I recall. | |
| January 17, 2007 | |
| So then there would be strangers sharing the common areas? This is unusual, but it was that way in a house that I rented back in 1970. The landlord rented each of the four bedrooms to strangers, and we (the renters) had to deal with sharing the common areas and getting along with each other. I only lived there for about 8 months....
Ok...I would say to definitely file HOH for both of them. | |
| 17 January 2007 | |
| I have already decided I would file HOH for both of them...it is not so uncommon in Florida actually. We have very high rentals here (on the coast) and low salaries....there are quite a few slum lords who want only the almighty dollar and people earning little over min wage who will do anything to get a place to stay.
Our hurricanes here of 2004 and 2005 still have repercussions and the homes that are available are pricey...thanks again! | |
Death&Taxes (talk|edits) said: | 18 January 2007 |
| "The deal is each parent pays 550.00 a month for the use of 2 bedrooms (rooms) with use of common areas." Rooms or bedrooms, for that puts the total bedrooms at 4, not three or am I missing something. In my mind, the facts of the lease speak to each having a separate household. Failure of one to pay the rent would mean only eviction of that one, not both. | |
