Discussion:Employer reimbursesment of Health Insurance premiums

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Discussion Forum Index --> Tax Questions --> Employer reimbursesment of Health Insurance premiums

Bholt (talk|edits) said:

15 January 2007
For the following situation, is it correct that no non discrimination rules apply and that all reimbursements are deductable by the employer(ER) and excluded from the gross income of the employee(EE)? What sources can be given for the answer? Thanks in advance.

ER reimburses John 800/mo. as payment of his health ins. prem. Same ER reimbusrses Sue and Mary 50/mo. as part payment of their health insurance premiums. Some other EE's recieve no reimbursement.

PVVCPA (talk|edits) said:

15 January 2007
Yes, you are correct. An employer can reimburse an employee for the cost of their health insurance PREMIUMS and deduct those expenses. And it is not considered compensation to the employee (IRC Sec 106).


There is no mention of discriminatory vs non-discriminatory in Code Sec 106. Code Sec 105 has this discussion.


IRC Sec 105(h) states that if an employer provides an uninsured or self-insured reimbursement plan then it must be non-discriminatory, i.e. an employer cannot reimburse an employee for their out-of-pocket medical EXPENSES (Co-pays, Deductibles, Uncovered benefits, ...) unless the employer does this through a non-discriminatory plan.


Reimbursing an employee for their PREMIUMS paid to a medical insurance provider (Blue Cross, Aetna, Health Net, Kaiser, ...) is NOT a self-insured plan by definition. Therefore, this can be discriminatory.

Sunny (talk|edits) said:

15 January 2007
PVVCPA, does the employer have to have a plan through which the reumbursement checks will be cut? If so, what is the name/type of such a plan? Thanks.

JR1 (talk|edits) said:

January 15, 2007
There's an extensive thread on this a few months old. Extensive.

Bholt (talk|edits) said:

15 January 2007
PVVCPA and JR1 thanks for your help

Sunny (talk|edits) said:

16 January 2007
JR1, could you kindly give me the link to the other thread? I did search but the results don't seem to relate to my question. Thank you so very much.

Death&Taxes (talk|edits) said:

16 January 2007
Try reading Riley's comment in Discussion: Health Ins Prem

JR1 (talk|edits) said:

January 16, 2007
That's not it. Let me look...

JR1 (talk|edits) said:

January 16, 2007
Discussion:Health Insurance Allowance from Employer Try this...

PVVCPA (talk|edits) said:

16 January 2007
FYI, I edited my prior post. I had 105 and 106 reversed.


I know of no requirement to have a written plan to reimburse for health insurance premiums under Sec 106.

Jdugancpa (talk|edits) said:

16 January 2007
My recollection is that a "fully insured plan" (i.e., a plan where 100% of risk is shifted to a third party) may be discriminatory. A "self-insured plan" (i.e. a plan where less than 100% of the risk of loss is shifted to a third party) e.g., a medical reimbursement plan covering more than just the medical insurance, cannot be discriminatory.

SHENIER (talk|edits) said:

16 January 2007
I started using the following company for my S Corp clients to set up a plan and reimburse personal health expenses (i.e., medical health insurance that is in the owners personal name instead of the corporate name and other medical/dental expenses)

https://www.105concepts.com/

PVVCPA (talk|edits) said:

16 January 2007
Sheiner, it is my understanding that 105concepts plan for an S-Corp can only be used to reimburse for the health insurance premiums and not for the out-of-pocket expenses. Is this correct?


I also believe that since this is a Section 105 plan, then this must be a non-discriminatory plan. Is that correct?

JR1 (talk|edits) said:

January 16, 2007
Must be non-disc., but you can have categories of folks out, part-timers, under age 25, etc. It CAN reimburse for anything, but it ALL flows back to the 1040 for the shareholders.

Sunny (talk|edits) said:

18 January 2007
Sorry I have to bring up this old topic again. After reading all three threads, I think I got it except one more question: does the business need to have a plan in place to reimburse the health insurance premiums, i.e. can the business just write checks to those employees? PVVCPA says "no" while JR1 says "yes". Could you clarify? Thank you for your help.

JR1 (talk|edits) said:

January 18, 2007
I'll defer to Dennis and D&T on our other thread rolling on this topic. You can reimburse for anything you want, but the question is what can you deduct and where.

Sunny (talk|edits) said:

18 January 2007
JR1, thanks for your quick response. My question is very specific:

Do I have to have a plan such as 105 to reimburse my employees for the health insurance premium (not other medical expenses)? Can I just write them those checks directly?

Thanks again.

PVVCPA (talk|edits) said:

18 January 2007
Sunny, When did JR1 say "yes"?

Death&Taxes (talk|edits) said:

19 January 2007
Not quite what you want but: Discussion: Deducting S Corp shareholder's individual health insurance on front of Form 1040?

KENDRICK (talk|edits) said:

19 January 2007
Sunny, I am responding so this discussion will get back up to the front. I too wonder, is a 105 plan really necessary? What I gather most are saying is, if an audit notification arrives in the mail, you can bet your booty that a plan will be written, dated as far back as it needs to be dated back, and be made available to an auditor. I think this is what is really happening out there. As a seminar speaker jokingly said the other day, "When I ask my client if they put something in the minutes, they look at me, and say, 'What are minutes?'"


What I am DESPERATELY seeking clarification on is, can a 105 plan be discriminatory. I always get clashing answers when I try to find out if my corporate client can have the corporation pay for his health insurance only, legally deduct it, and not be required to pay for the health insurance of his employees.


And if so, can he get a group plan (in case, wink wink, he ever decides to include another employee) that only has himself on it?


I will get to the bottom of all of this soon. I feel I am making some progress - I just can't believe it is not more simple. Thus the nature of this tax world . . .

Jdugancpa (talk|edits) said:

19 January 2007
Kendrick, this may be the answer you are looking for:


"105(h) Amount Paid To Highly Compensated Individuals Under A Discriminatory SELF-INSURED Medical Expense Reimbursement Plan-- (1) In General -- In the case of amounts paid to a highly compensated individual under a SELF-INSURED medical reimbursement plan which does not satisfy the requirements of paragraph (2) for a plan year, subsection (b) shall not apply to such amounts to the extent they constitute an excess reimbursement of such highly compensated individual.


(6) Self-insured Medical Reimbursement Plan

The term "self-insured medical reimbursement plan" means a plan of an employer to reimburse employees for expenses referred to in subsection (b) for which reimbursement is not provided under a policy of accident and health insurance."


See also 1.105-11.

1.105-11(2) states: "The rules of this section apply to a self-insured portion of an employer's medical plan or arrangement even if the plan is in part underwritten by insurance. For example, if an employer's medical plan reimburses employees for benefits not covered under the insured portion of an overall plan, or for deductible amounts under the insured portions, such reimbursement is subject to the rules of this section. However, a plan which reimburses employees for premiums paid under an insured plan is not subject to this section. In addition, medical expense reimbursements not described in the plan are not paid pursuant to a plan for the benefit of employees, and therefore are not excludable from gross income under section 105(b). Such reimbursements will not affect the determination of whether or not a plan is discriminatory."


My reading is that a SELF-INSURED plan (i.e., one that shifts less than 100% of the risk to a third party) is subject to the nondiscrimation rules. A fully insured plan is not subject to these rules. Hope that helps.

Riley2 (talk|edits) said:

19 January 2007
Kendrick, the question that you really asking is whether a Sec. 106 insured plan can be discrminatory. The answer is yes for income taxes, but not really for FICA purposes. The 3121 rules provide that a plan may cover employees generally or specific classes of employees. Thus, covering the bosses girlfriend, but not other employees in the same class would probably caudr FICA and Medicare taxation problems.

Sunny (talk|edits) said:

19 January 2007
Hi all, the original question in this thread is whether health insurance premium can be reimbursed to employees without worrying about the non-discrimination rules. It seems the consensus is Yes because it is for health insurance premium, not other costs such as out-of-pocket expenses. As result, the reimbursement amounts can be different from employee to employee, $800 for employee A and 0 for employee B.

The next question is whether the reimbursement has to go through a plan such 105 Plan. The answer to this makes a critical difference: If the health insurance premium reimbursement has to go through a 105 plan, then you do have to worry about the non-discrimination issue because 105 plan can not be discriminatory.

Could someone clarify and summarize on this? Thank you.

JR1 (talk|edits) said:

January 19, 2007
Part of the confusion may be that we're kind of talking about a bunch of different things. While covering health insurance, or reimbursing for it, can be discriminatory, a sec. 105 plan cannot be discriminatory. So it depends on what you're trying to do. To ensure that our S corp shareholders get the health insurance deduction in full, we're setting up 105 plans. I don't know that any other plan will work for that. And the sec 105 plan requires coverage for those who qualify.

Sunny (talk|edits) said:

19 January 2007
Hi JR1. Actually, my question relates to a C-Corp so I am not yet concerned with S-corp issues. The C-Corp has two shareholders 51% and 49% and they have five employees. Instead of buying a group insurance, they want to reimburse employees (including the owners themselves) the HEATH INSURANCE PREMIUMS and write checks to them DIRECTLY; the check amounts will vary among employees. Am I correct to say that the company does not need a 105 Plan? Am I also correct to say that the reimbursements are not subject to income/fica taxes? Of course I'd recommend that they add something language to their Corp minutes. Thanks again.

PVVCPA (talk|edits) said:

19 January 2007
I don't think you need a "plan". I see no requirement in Sec 106 for a written plan.

Not sure if you would need that in the corporate minutes either. Do the corporate minutes have to address expense reimbursements to officers? I don't think so.

Caja154 (talk|edits) said:

29 January 2007
There's also on old tax code on the books that states you must reimburse only once or twice a year. Rev. Rul. 61-146

Odiedoodaday (talk|edits) said:

5 June 2008
I am having some trouble with this topic. Here is the situation. I am the ED of a small non-profit. We have one employee, therefore we do not qualify for a health plan. Therefore, we are having the employee buy their own insurance, then we are going to reimburse them. We want to do this reimbursement twice a year (she just submitted her reciepts for the last 5 months). Can we just write her a check to reimburse her? If this has to be added as her salary, how is this done? Do we just raise her salary the amount for one month? Thanks

Natalie (talk|edits) said:

June 6, 2008
Odie, I'm starting a new discussion for you.

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