Discussion:Drake Tax Software

Thanks,

Frankly, the first few years I used them I had so many problems -- and problems with their supposedly "best in the industry" customer support -- that I investigated other products. But in fairness to Drake they have been improving steadily year by year (and I've been learning to use it better) to the extent that it's now not worth my effort to switch. This year they added a nice document filing system and an OK client tracking system (also included in the price).

You need to check, however, to make sure the program can do the specific things you need for your clients are. For the most common things it is OK. But I keep running into odd things it can't do -- like allow a non-resident alien from India to take the standard exemption on a 1040NR, or correctly compute the MA resident/non-resident combined tax for someone who moves from MA to RI and continues to work in MA. (At least it couldn't do those things in 2004.) And it has lots of problems with foreign addresses. Their customer support is generally pretty good now -- no wait time, and they'll call you back to follow up -- though they still resist admitting that there are things they get wrong or can't do. But then, so does Lacerte.

Nice touches: Drake has a web-based e-file database to check the status of your e-filed returns. Also does lots of downloadable upgrades and patches -- practically daily during this last season; you don't have to wait for a monthly CD.

Downside: If you read their users forum (compared to this one) you definitely get the idea that most Drake users do, shall we say, less complicated returns.

So if Lacerte is the Lexus, Drake is the Daewoo. Or maybe the Chevy. Does this help?

David.

Anyway...I attended a webinar on Drake and spoke to their rep. Seems like a nice program....handles simple returns. My firm so far has Partnerships, S Corps and Sole Prop type business returns. For the individual returns, most have social security threshold issues, foreign income, capital losses, capital gains and child credit type returns...all fairly simple. I am thinking I probably went with a cadillac when I could have used the Chevy...and in a few years buy that Caddie....anyone with DRAKE experience please respond and tell me how you feel when you use DRAKE software.

Thanks everyone,

Diane Offutt Woodstock, Georgia 30189

Go to their website and get a demo. www.drakesoftware.com

The look is very different from Lacerte, but in some ways it is more intuitive.

I can blow a lot of whistles and ring a lot of bells myself to save $3,000.

So it is not a deal maker or deal killer.

When I used Lacerte, it always took as long to map the quickbooks files of my clients over to the tax return anyway, that it was just easier to key it in again. What is the time involved for keying in 35 or 40 lines?

Lacerte has a many great features, but Kevinh5 above pretty much said it all. Those features....I can live without them if the cost is $3K or more. I need that $ to grow my company.

So far everything I have seen about Drake Software has been great. The trial disk will be what I make my decision on.

Thanks all for the great feedback.

Diane Offutt Woodstock, Ga. 30189

p.s. Hey Action, Drake CS is located in North Carolina, I hear that my former tax software company ATX moved their customer support back to the states after a mass tax preparer exodus, it's too late to bring me back though.

I just finished playing around with the DRAKE CD they sent me. It definitely is different from Lacerte. I can see it will do ok with VERY basic returns. My concerns are with the tax planner. I have just started getting clients interested in this feature and Lacerte has a great tax planner program. Unfortuanately the cost has sky-rocketed for 2007 which is why I am looking elsewhere. I noticed Drake tax planner did not plan the state projection. I will call them Monday to find out why this did not happen. Hopefully they will tell me it is due to me only having a DEMO and not "THE REAL THING".

Do any of you utilize the tax planner and if so....do you project state as well as federal....oh PLEASE say yes...I so want a tax program that is friendly to small accounting firms.....

Diane Offutt Woodstock, Georgia 30189

the hard part was consolidating expense categories with different names - is 'office expnese' the rent for the office for entity 1 or the same as 'office supplies' in entity 2.

Oh, I also received a response from Lacerte advising me the price increase for 2007 was to cover their "enhancements" and they understand the need for small companies to compare other software programs. The response sounds like a "Brush off" to me. Since Lacerte is not loyal to their customer's I guess going forward I will start recommending PEACHTREE accounting rather than QuickBooks. Intuit really needs to look at the bigger picture. When you start messing around with the little guy...well....they will pay for it in the long run.

I will keep everyone informed on my progress with Drake Software.

Diane Offutt

Thanks kevin

Anyone who wants to leave Lacerte, whether for the price increase or just the fact Lacerte no longer cares about the little guy...I would highly recommend you check out UltraTax CS. You might also want to give their RIA CHECKPOINT THOMSON PPC Deskbooks a try....it is a very comprehensive tax research program. I have a streamlined version; runs approximately $1.5K annual. It saves me so much time in tax research...and I bill my clients during the year when they need authority to take a position on a tax return....so I get a pretty good return for my money.

Here is the email and tele number for UltraTax CS CS.Sales@thomson.com 1-800-968-8900

Now, did Lacerte's so called "enhancements" give us anything that we could use to better serve our client? Answer...NO.

As much as I really like Drake, the company, the service...I really need that tax planner for federal and state and I just really love the integration with the tax research program within UltraTax CS.

Good Luck everyone...and thank you so much for all the great feedback.

Diane Offutt Woodstock, Ga. 30189

I am so happy I checked them out.

Diane Offutt

Hard to switch but makes sense if it is what I remembered it to be!! Thank you guys!!

I ordered the 2007 UltraTax CS and they told me I will get access to 2006 (for any extensions that need to be filed). YAY....I can offer my clients tax planner at no additonal cost (limited tax planner for now). My rep was wonderful...walks me through the program. The demo disk was great...they have all sample client tax returns...then have you add assets...dispose of assets....add dependents...etc.etc...so you can see how it works. It is priced GREAT like I said above...$150 pay per return...then each return is either $17 fed $10 state for 1040; all others $27 Fed, State $14. For consolidated returns $51 per return. Check it out. Call my rep and ask her to overnight the demo. Her info is:

Crystal Viegelahn Associate Account Representative Thomson Tax & Accounting Phone 800-968-8900 x 6331 Fax 734-426-3750 Crystal.viegelahn@thomson.com

Good Luck to you. I am so happy to have this forum and know that I am not alone in my distaste for Lacerte. Not only with their price increase...but their attitude of not caring for any of us. Hopefully they will learn from this mistake.

Meanwhile....I am finding out that Lacerte's price increase actually was helpful to my firm. If they didn't increase their price I would not have taken the week to check out the competition. NOW I find that UltraTax CS is a MUCH better product.

Did I say that UltraTax CS gives you access to your RIA Thomson CheckPoint and PPC handbooks? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.....this turned out to be a good week after all. Maybe I should send Lacerte a "thank you note"

Bye for now,

Diane Offutt Woodstock, Georgia 30189

Yes, I am about to embark on it. I just purchased the REP plan ($150 license, then pay per return). The way the conversion works is as follows:

I will copy my LACERTE customer files to a CD or DVD then send to UltraTax CS. They will incorporate the Lacerte customer information into my UltraTax CS. THis way I will be able to print 2007 tax organizers with my client's 2006 info....not to mention reduce the need for data entry.

As I progress with UltraTax CS I will post my experience here. This will help others as this forum has helped me in the past.

Diane Offutt

Good Luck

Diane

Diane Offutt

I also use CS writeup and the program is fantastic. However the customer service I have gotten has been less than perfect as well.

Unfortunately, I think with all software providers one must choose the lesser of two evils as the purchaser sees it. Someone will always be unhappy with something , but each of us must make our personal opinions. I think in the not to distant future all of us will be choosing between a intuit product or cch product.

Per my Ultratax CS rep...their PPR @ $150 lic fee, then pay as you go (see above message I listed prices) covers all types of returns...business, individual, not for profit, etc. Give her a call to confirm. Also, order a demo of the program and try out the different types of returns you will need. I found the program to be much easier to use.

I really do not see a major learning curve (which is what I was REALLY afraid of), for UltraTax CS program is just plain intuitive. Between the price and the ease...well....I am glad I made the switch from Lacerte to UltraTax CS.

Diane Offutt

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Depending on the type of returns you prepare. I am a VERY small firm...less than 50 returns last year. Hopefully a lot more this year. Each year I will project my costs..individual and business...once I hit that threshold of "Unlimited" then I would purchase the unlimited license. For the past few years the pay as you go works great. I am in Grad school and sitting for the EA exam...so it will be at least one more year before I really start growing the business.

Yes, I will keep everyone posted on my experiences.

Does anyone know why the drake program never carries forward the NOL of the previous years? For example, a taxpayer has NOL of

2003 1,000 2004 5,000 2005 3,000

Supposed the taxpayer chose to carry forward all these NOL, the drake program would only carry the 3,000 NOL of 2005 to 2006. And on the NOL worksheet, it also only enters 3,000 in 2005's row and leaves the 2003 and 2004 rows blank. Does anyone know why?

www.drakesoftware.com

Wanted to post my experience with UltraTax CS this Extension Tax Season....in one word FANTASTIC. Yes, I had a bit of a learning curve..however, the program is so darn intuitive....and the help screens are absolutely unbelievable...they truly are HELP screens. The very few items that I had issues with, when I called their helpdesk I was connected in less than a minute and the problems resolved in less than five minutes.

I am VERY happy that I switched programs. UltraTax CS is priced for the growing accounting practice. If you are unhappy with your program, whether price or service, do give UltraTax CS a shot. You will be so happy.

Call or email me if you need any additional information on them.

Diane Offutt Woodstock, GA 30189

Diane Offutt

Diane Offutt

Tim, if you are following this thread....you are part of the Intuit web, aren't you? Can you provide another perspective? Many of us seem to be feeling that an important part of the program/company has declined significantly recently.

We started out with "computers" in 1987 and used and old program called Xpress software that was very simple but support was terrible. We then went with another program after a 3 yrs and it was easier but the costs kept rising every year and support was better but not great. It seems all of the people I ran into in our area and at seminars were using Drake so we switched and it was a hard program to use at first but we have pretty much become used to everything.

One of the hardest things was when they went to the windows based program, which we knew was coming, but after using it for extensions for a summer we never looked back.

For our practice it works great and the support has always been there when we need it and they bend over backward to help.

I have looked at some of the other software but for the money and what we use it is perfect

I am also a long-time Lacerte user looking around for another software, even though I am not exactly a small firm: 1500+ 1040s and 7 years in business (have always used Lacerte). Lacerte still has a long way to go in user interface design, data entry efficiency and stability. When I pay 6000 for a software like Lacerte, I don't feel I am getting my money's worth.

I got a suggestion to look into Drake from another forum and ordered a demo. When it arrived, I almost didn't want to install it, thinking it would be another forms-based cheap piece of you know what. However, I was pleasantly surprised.

Compared to an elephant like Lacerte it looks too simplistic, yet it seems to have all the essential functionality. No-frills data entry screens let you keyboard through the tax return very efficiently without using a mouse. Of course, you have to learn the new layout of data entry screens. Report and client letter designers are quite on par with Lacerte (although I miss Lacerte's letter border), and it seems to have all the forms I need.

The printouts are of lower quality when compared to Lacerte, sure. Also, some parts of the program look amateurish (the View/Print screen, for example). There is also a bit more data entry involved at times -- an extra check box you don't have to check in Lacerte, for example, (example: the telephone tax refund), but, on the other hand some data entry aspects are better.

Things I like about Drake at first glance:

1. Seems to be very fast and efficient. With Lacerte, it takes 2-4 seconds to recalculate the return, even on my new Core Duo. Drake does it in a fraction.

2. Clean, no-frills user interface with configurable colors. With the help of some tweaking on Windows Themes and program color setup, I can accomplish a neat, flat look (i.e. get rid of those dumb 3D effects), with grey-on-black color scheme, even on forms, which you can't do with Lacerte (Do those "high-end" tax software designers even understand how hard it is to stare at a white screen for 12 hours a day???) Lacerte provides some color adjustment, but not to that degree.

3. All data entry screens are designed so that they don't require scrolling (or sub-sections, for that matter), yet they are still neat and clean and perceived clutterless (in most instances). Facilitates fast data entry.

4. Keeps automatically track of preparation time.

I would like to know if there are any serious issues with Drake, such as not calculating something correctly or diagnostics being substandard. I would also like to know if there are any issues with multi-state tax returns. So far, at first glance, the software looks impressive for the price, but I guess, I wouldn't know unless I tried to do some more complex tax returns.

Btw, I have looked at UltraTax -- don't like it. Its features are comparable to Lacerte, and so is the price, but user interface is worse. I have also taken a cursory look at Prosystem, which has marginally better features (from my viewpoint) with a hefty price increase.

My 2c worth...

Anybody else care to share their experience with Drake? Has it any serious issues?

After playing with it for awhile, these are the inconveniences/shortcomings that I have found with 1040 module so far:

1. Impossible to apply vehicle worksheet to rentals, partnerships or 2106. So, if you want to enter vehicle expenses by std mlg rate, for example, you would have to calculate them by hand. Form 2106 has its own vehicle information section, you can't apply the "stand-alone" vehicle worksheet to 2106. I would rather have a single location to enter all vehicle information. Also, vehicle info section of 2106 does not include vehicle description. Who can remember later what vehicles were entered there if there is no description?

2. Not very convenient view/print screen. When you want to switch from data entry to a form view, you have switch to view/print screen first, then select the form, then press enter (or double-click with mouse) to see it. I would prefer to see a form right away after entering the print/view screen, with 1040 as a default, and if I move to a different form, I want the program to remember my selection the next time I switch to forms view. The way it is now, is not very convenient if your work habit includes frequent switching between data input and result (the form).

3. Only critical error messages are shown after calculation, i.e. those that prevent e-filing, which you can then click on and the progam takes you to the relevant input screen/field. Less critical errors and informational messages are printed as a diagnostic worksheet (messages and notes pages), so you have to switch to forms view in order to see them. As if this wasn't cumbersome enough, the forms have no hyperlinks to take you to the input, so you would have to memorize (or print out) the messages, then go back to data input to change things. Very inconvenient!

4. Handling of absent values. I ran across this when the program didn't calculate retirement contribution credit. Instead, it gave me an informational diagnostic about client being eligible for it and suggesting to fill out form 8880. I went to the 8880 screen and entered 0 to the Roth IRA distributions field which caused the program to calculate the credit. Why can't the program equate the absent value with zero? Seems very straightforward to me.

5. Numerous check boxes/data fields which could be checked/entered by default, such as telephone refund checkbox, sales tax worksheet, the above-mentioned 8880 worksheet, etc. It would reduce the data entry effort as well as a possibility to miss a credit or a deduction a lot. If there was a default value feature, that would help a lot and make the last two complaint items moot.

Totally agree on the lack of ability to click on items and be taken to the data entry screen and I really miss that. Totally agree about the defaults.

Totally agree about the error messages. The program will not always ding at you when Lacerte would to alert us to potential problems with the return. This program isn't exactly topnotch on how information interfaces between different forms.

RIA Checkpoint is included in the cost of the software for research. They also include a write up program that I don't use.

I think Drake works very well for uncomplicated 1040s. It works well for more complex 1040s, business tax returns, and all State returns but you have to watch it.

Probably some balance exists between the lower price and the higher amount of time needed to carefully review the tax returns. Like anything new, it was a little frustrating during the learning curve of the first year. I'm a happy user now that I'm used to it, but I don't prepare a great number of tax returns and have no employees.

Glad to see somebody who has successfully weaned herself off Lacerte!

I think a lot of preparers are sticking with Lacerte and continue to pay extraorbitant fees because they are too accustomed to the specifics of Lacerte data entry and relying too much on Lacerte's diagnostics. Lacerte is like a bad habit. It is very far away from being an excellent tax prep software. You still have to use quite a bit of overrides and work-arounds to get the job done, as well as type too much. So I figure, if I have to do the same with Drake with a software cost benefit of about 5000 for me, why stay with Lacerte? Even if it involves a few extra keystrokes (that's what data entry personnel is for) and not relying on diagnostics that much. Actually, some of the Lacerte diagnostics is rather redundant and I would be happy if I could turn them off...

Thanks to both of you. I feel less now like the blind man with my hands on an elephant.

As far as the retirement contribution credit goes, it is not a big issue, either. Just one more workaround around a particular software's limitations (just like I do every day with Lacerte). I would just have to incorporate it into my data entry process to go routinely to screen 8880 and enter zero into Roth IRA distributions, so that whenever applicable, the program would calculate the credit. My data entry personnel can handle that. It's extra work, sure, but not that bad.

1. Impossible to apply vehicle worksheet to rentals, partnerships or 2106. So, if you want to enter vehicle expenses by std mlg rate, for example, you would have to calculate them by hand. Form 2106 has its own vehicle information section, you can't apply the "stand-alone" vehicle worksheet to 2106. I would rather have a single location to enter all vehicle information. Also, vehicle info section of 2106 does not include vehicle description. Who can remember later what vehicles were entered there if there is no description?

Are you referring to the AUTO worksheet? I have found out that Drake has a bug in this feature that is supposed to be fixed in the upcoming release.

Yeahright. Drake has been a good fit for my practice. I prefer input-sheet based software over forms-entry. Like Lacerte, it has some basic input screens that lower-level preparers can handle my initial data entry before my cleanup and "taking positions."

Drake has continued improvement and enhancing their software so that it no longer has that DOS feel or look to it. Moreover, Drake has not fallen into the trap that many tax software packages have: it does not try to be all things and all software for all people. I purchase tax software to prepare taxes; not manage contacts, not do payroll, not do bookkeeping, not to merge all sorts of things with all sorts of data, not for email, not to build websites, etc. That said, Drake does have import/export features to Quickbooks and MS Office, it does offer a separate write-up package, it does have a Client Status manager, and Drake offers a free website. But those are secondary to its main function of prepare tax returns without trying to get too fancy about it.

Overall, Lacerte is probably a better tax software but not six or seven times better than Drake, as it is priced six or seven times as much. To do everything that Drake does, you'd probably be looking at $7k plus.

The people at Drake are also top-knotch. I think as far as tech support goes it's like computers...garbage in garbage out. No, they cannot answer tax questions. They expect you to know how to prepare tax returns. But they CAN answer how information flows through the software. Like I said, it's a good fit for me.