Discussion:1099MISC or Stock Sale

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Discussion Forum Index --> Advanced Tax Questions --> 1099MISC or Stock Sale
Discussion Forum Index --> Tax Questions --> 1099MISC or Stock Sale

DanIndy (talk|edits) said:

30 November 2007
How will these taxpayers report this income?

Taxpayer years ago bought stock in a startup company.

The company has since went bankrupt. Most of the taxpayers have reported this loss on their respective Schedule D.

Now, the originator of the bankrupt company, is reimbursing some of the shareholders a portion of their investment, and he is going to issue the shareholders a 1099MISC, so that he can take the repayments as a business deduction. He is rationalizing that the repayments to the shareholders are a "commission" payment.

I prepare the 1040 for a few of these taxpayers. We don't want to show the repayment as business income. How can I avoid that? They are in reality receiving some of their investment back. But the IRS will be receiving the 1099MISC and matching that up to the taxpayers return.

What's the best way to handle this?

Pegoo (talk|edits) said:

30 November 2007
Two seperate and unrelated transactions IMO. Question tho, even if the Corporation is Bankrupt, did the corporation itself file for dissolution?

The old corp's owner must have a new corp and wants to deduct the monies somewhere in a new corp.... Hence the 1099s. Just a thought hehe.

DanIndy (talk|edits) said:

30 November 2007
That is exactly what the owner is doing. He has other business entities, and is being a good guy giving some money back to the old shareholders. He is then taking a tax deduction (form 1099misc) for the payments.

But, the taxpayers/investors/shareholders are then stuck paying income tax AND self employment tax on the proceeds. How can this be avoided?

Bottom Line (talk|edits) said:

1 December 2007
Since this is a one time thing and they're not employed in this, I'd show it on Sch C (to avoid a mis-match letter) and then expense it all out. Then I would show the entire amount on line 21.

Jdugancpa (talk|edits) said:

1 December 2007
No need to show it on Sch C. Show directly on Line 21. They are not "in the business" of receiving such belated "reimbursements." And pay the tax at ordinary rates. If the guy was not required to make the payments, take the money, pay the tax and say thank you.

Bottom Line (talk|edits) said:

1 December 2007
Whenever I've shown 1099-Misc directly on line 21, I've gotten a "nastygram" saying that I didn't show the 1099 on the tax return. I then have to write a letter saying that it shown on line 21. (This is after calming the client down because they got a letter from the IRS.) Have they finally figured out to look at line 21?

Jdugancpa (talk|edits) said:

1 December 2007
I think so.

RJM (talk|edits) said:

1 December 2007
Isn't this some form of fraudulent conveyance? By selectively paying back the bankrupt entity's creditors or capital contributors? Isn't this a non-deductible expenditure because it has nothing to do with the business disbursing the funds? .... just a thought. -Bob

Blrgcpa (talk|edits) said:

1 December 2007
Since the loss was a w/o on sched d there is no basis in the old corp. The repayment is a cap gain with a -0- basis on sched d.

Dennis (talk|edits) said:

1 December 2007
Basically this is an advertising expense for the payer, (see, I'm not a total *!##*) although whether there is a relationship to the actual business doing the paying is tenuous. Treatment should be similar to prizes/awards.

JR1 (talk|edits) said:

December 1, 2007
OHMYGOSH! I agree with BLRG! Mark it down. Absolutely. It's a Sch. D gain.

Gmikeg (talk|edits) said:

2 December 2007
I also agree on the sched D, and a zero basis since they already wrote it off. I fixed my post twice just now.. (RTFQ)

Dennis (talk|edits) said:

2 December 2007
Schedule D is problematic because the payer wants an income tax deduction and because the payments are unique to the individual, not to the class. I don't think you can offer a one way opinion. This is a receipt of funds representing an ordinary business expense.

Gmikeg (talk|edits) said:

2 December 2007
So wait, the investors only got a long-term cap. loss, (assuming LT), and now have to eat ordinary income? I say they all amend their returns with the LTCL, and remove it from that return, then file a sched. D for the year they constructively got the money (LTCG). I mean it's gotta make sense, right?

Pegoo (talk|edits) said:

3 December 2007
Ordinary income. Either way the payer have no obligation to repay share holders if the corporation have failed. Share holders deducted their respective shares at a loss. It may get interesting if it was Sec1244 losses =)

But anyways, unless you want a IRS note which might require a follow up with your client, I'd put it line 21. In the end it is your client that has to deal with what he/she chooses. IMO.

San Diego (talk|edits) said:

3 December 2007
I would say it's capital gains and make a disclosure citing the relation-back doctrine. The disclosure will CYA IMO.

Dennis (talk|edits) said:

3 December 2007
I wonder what the Schedule D people would say if they were representing the guy who essentially wants to repair his business reputation by volunteering to offer a selected few of the losers some compensation.

San Diego (talk|edits) said:

3 December 2007
Dennis,

I see your point, but the first thing I would ask the payer is how you justify the payment as an expense. What is the economic subsistence?

DanIndy (talk|edits) said:

3 December 2007
Gmikeg has the point, the shareholders recognized a LTCL, and now have to recognize ordinary income because of the 1099. It's nice that they received some of the investment back, but Uncle Sam is winning on this one.

Also San Diego, the payer is justifying his treatment because the bankrupt corp, had some "venture capitalist" involved, which the payer then used those same VC's for other deals. The payer is rationalizing that if it wasn't for the investors and the first bankrupt company, he never would have met the VC, to do the other deals (other entities). So, he looks at it as a "commission" payment for getting hooked up with the VC's. A long shot, huh. But in reality he is repaying some of the money, to save his reputation.

Jdugancpa (talk|edits) said:

3 December 2007
Gmikeg's point would be right except for one thing: The obligation to pay the investors anything at all was dismissed by the bankruptcy court. Ergo, the payments are all "grace" on the part of the payor and the recipient should therefore be happy to pay the tax at ordinary tax rates. 65% of a loaf is maybe not as good as 85% of a loaf, but it is still better than no loaf. (It's also better than half a loaf, which is the standard for loafs that are better than no loafs:) Give the payor his deduction and pay the tax at ordinary rates. Line 21.

San Diego (talk|edits) said:

3 December 2007
But was it an ordinary & necessary expense? I think the IRS would agrue not.

Jdugancpa (talk|edits) said:

3 December 2007
Not relevant. DanIndy's clients are the recipients, not the payor.

San Diego (talk|edits) said:

3 December 2007
Understood, I was just trying to respond to Dennis.

Jdugancpa (talk|edits) said:

3 December 2007
From the payor's perspective, he can justify the expense based on the retention of existing business relationships that will likely produce other deals for him in the future.

San Diego (talk|edits) said:

3 December 2007
If I were the IRS auditor on this I would make the payor demonstrate Jdugancpa's point. If he can do that, then very well...

Valleytaxoffice (talk|edits) said:

3 December 2007
I have had the same experience as Bottom Line. If it is a 1099-MISC the IRS will look for it on Sch C. And also look for it on SCH SE. Believe me the IRS will send a notice if they don't find in these places.

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